Recovering from EDS, Trigeminal Neuralgia, MCS, MCAS, CFS, Anxiety & more with Janet Massey

00:00:00 Janet: You can really develop that community anywhere. So even outside of the retraining community, like how you show up with somebody on screen for a while and laugh with them, praise with them, celebrate with them, or calm your body down with them. You connect with them.

00:00:27 Chazmith: Hello, welcome to Our Power Is Within. I'm your host Chazmith, and my mission for this podcast is to inspire you to take your power back and realize that you are the healer that you have been looking for all along. I believe that we are all capable of healing in mind, in body, and in soul. 

00:00:54 Chazmith: Today's episode is sponsored by my dear friend Dr. Cathleen King's wonderful, wonderful academy and community known as Primal Trust. Primal Trust is a membership site that helps us to find freedom from chronic illness and trauma, and it is quickly growing as one of the largest worldwide online healing communities out there. The membership includes access to Regulate, which is a level one comprehensive program to self-regulate the brain and nervous system, where we focus on both a top-down and a bottoms-up approach.

00:01:32 Chazmith: There is a level two mentorship, where we go deeper into the inner work of attachment and trauma healing. And as a side note, for anyone out there who has tried the level two in the past, I do want to highlight that there's actually a new option for level two that is a simplified version. We also have a new level three program called Expansion and Integration, which is all about supporting us as we emerge back into life after a period of chronic illness, burnout, or dysregulation. I am so excited about this level three program.

00:02:14 Chazmith: Through personal experience, I know how valuable it is to have support through this transitional phase of our lives. In addition to all these wonderful programs, level one through three, there is also access to ongoing study groups, forums, support, daily live classes, and so much more. Click the link in the show notes today and do not forget to use the code OPIW to save 5%.

00:02:47 Chazmith: Now our guest today is Janet Massey. Janet, like all of us, has her own story to share and today I get to dive into her healing journey and learn so much from Janet. based on what she's learned along the way. It was so much fun getting to chat with her. Fun fact, she used to come to my movement classes, which for those of you who might be newer to the podcast, this was something I offered for about a year and a half, maybe two years actually. They were so fun. It was a wonderful season of my life. And I got to move and play alongside so many beautiful souls. And Janet was one of them. But it's so crazy. And her and I mentioned this in the episode. how even though she showed up for many of my classes and we did get to move and play together, how much of her story I actually didn't know until I did this interview. It's kind of crazy how that all works. 

00:03:57 Chazmith: So anyhow, it was a joy for me to get to know Janet better at this deeper level after having this connection with her for so long. And I'm really excited to share this episode and see what you gain from hearing her experience and insights that she gathered along the way. Please enjoy.

00:04:25 Chazmith: Janet, thanks so much for being here with me today.

00:04:28 Janet: Thank you for having me. It's awesome to be here with you.

00:04:33 Chazmith: That's good. It's good to see your face. I actually thought about that and I haven't really actually, like seen you since, I mean, I don't even know how long ago it was when you would do the jump into the movement classes with me.

00:04:43 Janet: They were fun.

00:04:44 Chazmith: It's been a long time.

00:04:45 Janet: I love fun.

00:04:45 Chazmith: Yeah, it looks like your hair is different.

00:04:47 Janet: Yes, it's been growing out for quite some time.

00:04:52 Chazmith: But it's lighter too, isn't it?

00:04:54 Janet: Oh, I was a blonde. My hair gets lighter in the summer and just the roots are darker so nobody knew that I was a blonde. I don't look like a blonde anymore, but I was– 

00:05:06 Chazmith: Oh, really? 

00:05:07 Janet: Yeah, before I cut my hair off.

00:05:10 Chazmith: Oh my gosh, I had no idea. All right. Very cool. Well, we're going to talk a little bit about your journey today. Is that cool? 

00:05:18 Janet: That sounds awesome. 

00:05:19 Chazmith: Let's start with a very simple question. Where are you at in your journey? Are you at a place where you consider yourself fully healed? Are there still symptoms or diseases in your body that you are still recovering from and healing? Tell me something.

00:05:34 Janet: I consider myself fully healed. I feel like there's always things that we're growing in though because there's things even just that it takes time to build, like the strength or endurance or mobility or communication and relationships. It just takes time to do that, but I feel like I'm just on this, like building through good stuff journey.

00:06:00 Chazmith: Okay. For everyone who's listening, what have you actually recovered from?

00:06:05 Janet: It's a fairly long list. My stuff started as a, well, some of the symptoms from as long as I can remember, some digestive symptoms and hypersensitivity things. So even like allergies to smoke and cleaners from my whole life, even though they exponentially increased, they did start as long as I can remember. And then some spinal injuries when I was a young kid and then in my teens and twenties and on the line. So I did have chronic pain from the time of 11 and daily chronic from like 14 on. So, that is some of the stuff in my, maybe early 20s. I think I was diagnosed finally with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome and that explained a lot of it in their world. I don't receive any of these labels anymore, but that was a past diagnosis. 

00:06:56 Janet: And that I feel like was kind of the overarching thing of all of it. The worst severity, the joints just hanging out of the socket and dislocating throughout the days was kind of the big picture of it all. And then a cerebral spinal fluid leak in 2007 from a medical procedure caused more trauma around medical procedure stuff and medical anything. And then that continued until shortly after starting retraining. And then just mast cell activation syndrome or multiple chemical sensitivity. You can just group it into that. Chronic fatigue. I tend to forget a lot of them now when I did my, like testimony video. I keep adding things to the list because people go, oh, did you have this? And I'm like, oh yeah, I forgot. So I, I've really detached that far from some of them, but like trigeminal neuralgia was one of them, vertigo and then the depression and anxiety and complex PTSD, you know, just the gamut of things, food sensitivities. And that's what I'm remembering right now.

00:08:06 Chazmith: Yeah. It's a good place to be when you can start forgetting about all that stuff, you know? Like you're so in such a different identity state that you're so far removed from ever identifying with those things. That's beautiful. 

00:08:18 Janet: Yeah. It's nice. It's very nice. 

00:08:22 Chazmith: Yeah. You've come a long way then. Yeah. I know just from knowing you that your self-healing journey, the catalyst for that really was rewiring, correct?

00:08:32 Janet: Yes. Yeah. It started all with DNRS, the Dynamic Normal Retraining System. That was the first entry point I had. I admit I didn't know what it was. I'm really thankful I didn't look at it or any testimonies because I just knew it was neuroscience. And I looked at enough of the neuroscience with my physical therapy background that it was like, oh, okay, well, this is real. So I'll do it. And it made me jump in and not question it too much. I think like, that was easier for me.

00:09:03 Chazmith: Yeah. And when did you start that?

00:09:05 Janet: It was like June or July of 2019.

00:09:09 Chazmith: 2019. Okay. And so you started with doing a brain retraining. And then where did you go from there? What other programs, modalities, or tools were really supportive for you along this journey in addition to the brain retraining?

00:09:25 Janet: Yeah, I feel like community is maybe not a support tool, as people call it, but one of the biggest things was certainly community. And for me, it started in a Facebook group and we started a book club. And then somebody in that Facebook group introduced me to the WhatsApp and Signal community. And I got to my first group that I got to be live with people other than the book group was Laughter Yoga. And that became really, really big for me. I started leading laughter yoga maybe a year and a half into a year and a few months into my journey. I mean, I led it twice a day, usually seven days a week. It was really important to me. 

00:10:06 Janet: But about the same time or maybe right before, I also found somatics. I didn't know what it was called, but I knew that I was learning to be present in my body and not disassociated through just gentle movements in my eyes and light touch. And then little by little, I learned what it was called and how I'd learned a lot of it even as a physical therapist, but I had no idea it could help me. So yeah, really somatics, laughter yoga. And then I had been doing self-lymph massage, but I started when I learned somatics and realized I could do it more gently and softly. I was able to combine that in, in a much more loving, kind way and found it helpful. And then really my faith became a big part of it, but kind of as I went along, not really in the early stages, so– 

00:10:57 Chazmith: Oh, okay. So you didn't have necessarily, like a strong faith base at the beginning when you were sick before you started and embarked on the self-healing journey.

00:11:05 Janet: I feel like I would have said I did, but I had a whole lot of lies and fears and triggers associated with it because it was… so it was just kind of very carefully adding in little pieces when I felt able to. And then that grew as lies broke down and I could just have more good and realize truth and just see it a little bit more clearly. So I think I thought I had that, but I did not.

00:11:36 Chazmith: Okay, yeah, so it's just kind of this, like layers, like I'm rewiring, I start laughter yoga, I start doing gentle somatics, you just kind of layer, you know, I start having more faith, I'm all the while in community, so you just start layering in these things.

00:11:53 Janet: Yep. Yeah. And not always seeing the big picture, right? It didn't matter. It's like, okay, well, this is helpful, so I'll do this and I'll just step forward in this. And I have this community redirecting me so kindly when I needed to be redirected. I mean, we do redirect each other like, hey, Janet, it sounds like you're labeling yourself again with all those diagnoses. Like, do you want to not talk about that? It's like, oh, yeah, thank you. I hadn't noticed I'd gone back down that direction. And it's really helpful.

00:12:24 Chazmith: I love that aspect of the DNRS slash brain retraining community. I think that was one of the most profound, impactful, important skills to learn early on, was to not identify, to not get stuck hyper-focusing on it, to like, oh, not even ask how you're doing, to not even give your brain a chance to go to what's not working or the negative. And I noticed that for a lot of people who kind of immerse themselves in the self-healing community through different modalities or tools or entrances, they didn't have that, that skill per se. So you see such a difference if you go into like a brain retraining Facebook group versus like some alternative type of Facebook group. It's like all symptom talk versus like, hey, we're not going to talk about that. Hey, that's not allowed here, you know, where it's moderated. 

00:13:15 Chazmith: And I just thought that was a very powerful skill set to have and to develop. And so I'm forever grateful for that aspect. And also the laughter aspect. I thought that was something we kind of learned through the retraining community, too. And being able to recognize that we do have the power to shift our state. And that's not to say that we always need to shift our state, because as we usually learn along this journey, we need to actually feel our feelings. But there's a time and place to feel things. And there's a time and place that It's a superpower to be able to say, no, I'm going to shift my state. And yes, this might be happening and I'm still going to choose to laugh today.

00:13:57 Janet: Yeah, well, I actually found, have found many times, laughter to be really helpful to have all my emotions released, too. I remember learning that and getting the opportunity to try it when I had had a loss and I had been able to, like, release all my feelings. And then I woke up and felt like I wasn't releasing, I was holding, and I didn't quite feel up to leading a laughter session because I knew I might cry, but I got to join one. And I actually kept myself on camera most of the time. I would just turn it off now and again when I realized I was going to start crying. But it really helped. I would laugh and then I would cry and not hold it back. It was so amazing. And so I got to realize, people might say, well, it would be unnatural to laugh right now. But I had a lot of things to laugh about. There's always something to feel joy about. And so I got to laugh and then cry and laugh and then cry. And that stuck feeling where I couldn't release the emotion was gone. And I just felt free and it was amazing.

00:15:02 Janet: That was, I mean I've had other situations like that but that one day was really profound in teaching me that I've even told people who have had a loss. You know feel free to come to laughter yoga and I like what that seems, like it wouldn't be you know even kind to the memory or something like, you're allowed to laugh, and it could be helpful. I mean, I can't always know what somebody else will find helpful, right? It might not be as helpful as it is for me, and all of those things. We all have different tools that are the most profound for us, but I feel like I've given people permission to try it. It's okay. It's not disrespectful to laugh in the midst of grief, and it can help you break through that damn because you're expressing one emotion, basically, and then others can feel free to come out, and it's really powerful.

00:15:49 Chazmith: Yeah, that's such a good point. And I love that you brought that up about the grief because, wow, that's so real. Like to that guilt feeling, you know, like when you're grieving and you are standing in your power and you're like, I'm going to make a conscious choice to like feel the feelings and also choose to elevate my mood. But then you do it and then there's this guilt, like this guilt for how could I possibly allow myself to laugh or smile or be happy when I'm also grieving somebody or something and feeling all this pain. And it's like, well, it doesn't have to be either or, it gets to be both. And that is such a superpower that I feel I learned from this journey.

00:16:29 Janet: Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing and a gift. And I feel like having the community to laugh with is amazing because I felt safe, too. And that's, I know now I lead both inside the retraining community and outside of it. And you can really develop that community anywhere. So even outside of the retraining community, like how you show up with somebody on screen for a while and laugh with them or praise with them or celebrate with them or calm your body down with them. Like you connect with them. I mean, We're all doing the same thing and it's really beautiful, so– 

00:17:08 Chazmith: Yeah, and whoo, yep, this ride can be a lonely one. So community is so valuable. And I know that a lot of us really struggle with creating that community, necessarily, like in our physical sphere of influence, per se, maybe we don't have it, or feel it from our family or close friends that, you know, don't understand what we've gone through in a sense. And so, but learning that we can absolutely still feel connected and a part of even in a virtual capacity is huge.

00:17:38 Janet: Yeah. And I've met quite a number of people over the last few years in, or the last couple of years, I guess, in person that I had only met online that have flown here, traveled here, whatever. And it's, it's no different. I mean, you know, there's certain things you don't know how tall they are necessarily. Sometimes that can really surprise you if they haven't told you, but you don't know how fast they walk maybe, or there's little things that you don't know because you haven't been around them. But otherwise, you really do know them. We really do develop connections. And it just feels like, oh, yeah, I'm just seeing you again. And it's beautiful.

00:18:21 Chazmith: Yeah, that's awesome. So throughout your journey, how long initially did you really hone in on DNRS and brain retraining and make that your fundamental practice before you shifted gears?

00:18:33 Janet: Well, in a lot of ways, I didn't, I mean, I didn't do DNRS by the book at all. So I feel like I considered everything I did, brain retraining. I mean, like laughter was part of the elevating my mood and part of, and I was in a DNRS group and somatics to me was, as well. I realize now that's not part of that program, but it was like, okay, well I'm working to re-identify myself and be present in my body. So to me, that was all part of that. And even the self-love massage, it was like, okay, I'm going to give myself just self-support. I'm going to support my body and be caring for it. And that's changing my identity and just how I treat myself. So I feel like it's been this whole big bubble of things that to me was all the same thing, even though I'm not like, people will talk about rounds and it's just one piece of the program and wasn't as big for me. 

00:19:38 Janet: But using the format of catching my thoughts all day, I feel like that's a lifelong thing. It felt like when I started, I'm not going to do this for more than six months. This is hard. And then I'm going to be free, right? And I hadn't really had a lot of physical changes in six months. But I knew I'd had mental emotional changes and I like, knew this was helping. And so of course I kept going, but I still thought like, okay, at some point I'm going to stop this. And I feel like I don't do rounds, but they weren't big for me anyway. But I feel like just the decision to constantly live knowing I'm free, knowing my identity, and choosing my thoughts, that's always going to be. I'm not going to change that. My thoughts are important and I want truth and not lies. So I think I'm still in that world.

00:20:30 Chazmith: Yeah. So for you, what is a good way for you to pattern interrupt when you notice a thought showing up that you don't want to entertain?

00:20:38 Janet: I feel like it kind of depends. Like if it's just something that comes in and I notice it right away, I just remind myself my identity and speak truth over it. And I feel like it goes away. Sometimes those things creep in and I don't notice them and I've kind of just taken on something, taken on a lie that maybe I was around somebody who kept saying certain things and at first I noticed it and over time I didn't notice the lie anymore and then I feel like it takes more a concerted effort to redirect and focus and I use, I mean, I, I do still use the decision to laugh. Like I'll even just decide to laugh about that. I took on a lie, like really took on that lie. And I, I laugh like that's silly. ‘Cause I know now that's a lie. 

00:21:30 Janet: So I actually have found that more recently because I feel like my nervous system might've thought early on that I was laughing at myself for believing something. And that might've not been nice, but as it went along, I'm like, no, I'm laughing because I know I am free. I don't have to receive that, so I laugh. But for me, it is the foundation of my faith that I remind myself of my identity and I choose praise songs and I do praise God because to me, that's the foundation of my identity and that's what redirects me more than anything. I'll often maybe start laughing and then realize I've just had my mind on different things and I need to redirect.

00:22:15 Chazmith: I like that though because how often I think have I caught up, like how you described it, like you all in this something creeps in and all of a sudden you're like you're in this story and then when you finally catch yourself, it's so easy to go into, like guilt or shame, like shame yourself or like, oh, my god, I can't believe you did this. Like, oh, I can't be right, you know? Like, it's so easy to go there so instead to just have a chuckle and just be like, oh, I already know the truth. Like, I can't believe I fell for that. Like, okay, whatever, you know, that feels a little bit more light, gentle and not so heavy by covering ourselves in more shame.

00:22:54 Janet: Yeah. And it's not, I'm not laughing at myself. right? Like, and I'm laughing with myself. Like, this is silly. I know this and I've spent so much time thinking the truth. And so, yeah, I love it.

00:23:07 Chazmith: Yeah. Now, as far as the somatics, because that's a word that's really thrown around a lot. It is. There's an infinite number of types of approaches for how we could address somatics, in a sense. You can get into somatic exercises like pandiculating and actual, I'm not going to say this name right, but there's actual physical exercises and movements, and then there's somatic tracking and somatic experiencing, and anything at all that has to do with the body is quote-unquote somatics. And I'm sure there's different types of somatics that resonate for different people, but what was really the approach that worked for you?

00:23:48 Janet: Yeah, I agree. It's a word that is, and really it's just because ‘soma’ is the Greek word for body. So it's like, it just is going from the body to the brain instead of the other way around. And that's really the whole reason why it resonated with me because, like so many people, it's challenging to catch and direct our thoughts. But also when, because of physical things, there's maybe trouble speaking or trouble concentrating, you know, trouble connecting with all of that. And even sometimes when I felt like I could connect with my brain, but it wasn't affecting my body, I needed to address my body. So it started out for me with, and a lot of people have heard this, but it really did start out with me staring at a leaf above my bed. 

00:24:30 Janet: That was a really big turning point in my whole journey. So I was, ‘cause I, I was in bed and there was a plant above my bed with just, it was a peace lily and it was the biggest leaf I've still ever seen on a peace lily, and it was just hanging above my bed. I had been told by somebody. I didn't know the person. It was just somebody in a Facebook group. I don't remember who it was or anything, that I needed to be present in my body to not be disassociated. I needed to just take in my surroundings and let myself know I was here, that I'm here and now and not in some past memory that my body, like my mind might know where I am, but my body may not. 

00:25:11 Janet: And I'm, thankfully, I didn't totally get what she said because at the time, without head or very little eye movement, I probably would have tried to force myself to look all around the room. I didn't get that you were supposed to be kind and gentle and stay in your window of tolerance. I knew very little. But I was like, okay, we'll take in my surroundings. Well, there's a leaf, I'll take it in. I just started describing it because she said, just describe it. I just started describing the leaf and it was really, calming. I remember feeling present in my body for the first time. Like I, oh, I'm here. And it actually is okay. It's not as scary as I thought it would be. And I would just look at it. I keep looking up like it's there, but I would look at it and describe it and over time, it actually became a gratitude thing, which somatics isn't necessarily, right?

00:26:09 Janet: You can just describe the neutral things, like that it's green and that there's this line down the middle of it, that it's soft or rough or anything neutral. But I started being able to just have gratitude for the awesome design of it and how it can bring water from the ground up into the leaf and nourishment, and it gets nourishment from the sun, and it can take in all these good things. And I was just thanking God. And that became a really big recovery for my faith journey, as well, because I started being able to see goodness. So the leaf was big. I spent a lot of time with that leaf. Then I started learning more about eye movement and that we should just move the amount we can move and not be really rough on ourselves and think I should be able to move my eyes as far as the person teaching me on the screen can move hers, but just whatever amount I can move them and know that.

00:27:06 Janet: And I started watching my animals and, oh, yeah, if they get startled, their eyes do freeze or sometimes maybe they dart around, but they freeze because I drop something, and they freeze. And then they start looking around, and that tells their nervous system, like, oh, okay. And then they yawn and maybe shake it out. I'm like, okay, I was getting this. And then it really became just all the body touch. I'm thankful for me that it was just kind of looking with my eyes, because my nervous system needed to calm down a little bit, I think, even to move my limbs and touch things. But just touching my own body gently, noticing, again, neutral things, not the negative things that were going on, but just, oh, okay, yeah, it's warm right here. Not judging that, oh, should it not be warm or anything, but just it is, it's warm.

00:28:00 Janet: And so it really started with those kinds of things, just gentle connection with my body and my surroundings so that I'm present. And, you know, it all connected. It's like, well, yeah, we have these little proprioceptive cells in our skin that tell our body where we are in time and space. And that had gotten all skewed. And so I get to reconnect to it and I get to calmly teach it and calmly stimulate my vagus nerve. And then I did learn more of the panasomatics, pandiculation and all of that. And that really fit well with all the physical therapy knowledge and body movement. 

00:28:41 Janet: And so I like it all. It's a conglomerate. And really, I, I started making things up and using things that I had used on clients in the past, but I, I thought it was for a specific condition or a specific thing. Like I had no idea how broad these things were. We were not taught that at all, but it was like, oh, I remember noticing people just calm down and their muscles soften when I did XYZ. And so I just started exploring it all and realizing there was so much available to do. And I would think like, okay, this is my favorite thing. This is what I'm going to do. And then I think, I don't know if I just get bored of that or whatever, but I actually realized I liked switching it up. I would have a favorite for a while and then, like I'm not connecting to this anymore. Oh, well, there's other things. And so I like a lot of it.

00:29:39 Chazmith: Yeah, and I think that's a really good point because how often can we start something and then we put this pressure on ourselves that we need to just keep doing that thing, you know? Like, no, can't stop. Like, who decided it wasn't okay to change it up? Because if all of this can have benefits, then who's to say there's not a season for everything and for you to experiment and find what really feels resonant for you and what resonates today and might not be what you need in three months. Maybe you've outgrown that for the time being. It's not to say you won't circle back around to it. 

00:30:14 Chazmith: But for now, maybe you've outgrown it and it's time to bring that input into the body in a new way. Yeah. So being your own experiment. I think that's something that sometimes when we're really in the thick of things, it's hard to be that for ourselves because of all the fear, you know, and the hyper awareness, fear, things like that. It can be really hard to not be afraid of being our own, like experiment tour and saying, hey, we're just going to try this on. We're just going to try this off. Just going to try this on, you know?

00:30:49 Janet: Well, I remember going to a live class, I mean, a couple of years ago or something and somebody that I knew and trusted, I noticed was there, too. And I got done and I was like, okay, this one thing, like that was awful, right? I was like, that made everything worse. And all I could think about was symptoms. And she was like, oh, that's so interesting. That was my absolute favorite one. I was like, are you kidding me? That really actually opened my eyes to like, okay, first of all, I'm like, can you explain it again then? Because maybe I missed something. And she did explain it a little like she'd received something different from it. And, but I even kept trying it then and it did not resonate with me. And over time, it has more and more, it's still not my go to at all.

00:31:43 Janet: Well, that's interesting how I've modified it. I suppose I am using it, but I still use it when I teach classes because I've heard from a lot of people it's one of their favorite. So I can lead people through it and they have a great experience and that's awesome. I still don't love it except in these certain ways I modify it. Anyway, but there's other ones where I thought, wow, that made me way worse. And then it becomes my favorite. And it's often because I was just expecting a certain thing and kind of pushing myself. And that's actually why I like doing live classes for people because it's really easy to rush and to be kind of hard on yourself and to be able to just be reminded now and again, like, hey, be gentle. If you did this yesterday and you had this much range of motion and now you have like none, that's okay. Totally fine. 

00:32:36 Janet: Your nervous system just is needing more feeling of safety right now. And that's how it feels safe. And so this is just a time to communicate with it, not judge it, not correct it, not shame it. And it's really valuable because I know even myself still today, if I, I will, find myself thinking like, oh, that might help right now with I feel, like I feel calm, but my body is remembering an old pattern in this situation and I could use some help. But oh, I just have one minute and I'm gonna rush. I tell people all the time not to do that, but I can still do it and I'll hear myself saying, remember, even if you only get, like 10% into this exercise, but that's all the time you have, that's better than rushing through it and completing it because you only have one minute or five minutes or whatever. So actually, I find my instructions helpful, too.

00:33:28 Chazmith: Nice. Yeah. And that all is just as evidence that it's just so individual, isn't it? So individual. It's all just so individual to each person, where they're at, where they came from. And again, I do feel, like there's times where something you outgrow it or it doesn't feel like it's serving you now and then you circle back and you're like, wow, this is awesome because maybe you've done all these layers of healing and now when you approach this thing from this completely different person, it has a completely different experience, you know? So things can come in seasons, in cycles, for sure. So speaking of some of this stuff, what is your daily self-care routine like nowadays? Because you consider yourself fully healed, but that doesn't mean that things like you said, you might feel calm, but that doesn't mean your body doesn't still sometimes show up as activated in an old pattern. So what do you do to take care of your being regularly?

00:34:24 Janet: That is such a good question. I love it. And I have to say that through the last year, as I've done better, you know, just had more and more freedom and ability and stuff. I definitely hit a point. I don't, maybe like nine months ago or something where it was like, okay, like, I didn't say I'm invincible. But I realized looking back, I thought like, I'm invincible. I don't need to care for me anymore. You know, I mean, I feel like I was still doing things, but just had really gotten into like, I don't, I don't need to listen to my body. It doesn't, I don't know. So I feel like just learning how it is a lifelong thing to care for ourselves. And it doesn't have to, I think I needed to separate like, oh, I'm different. And I need a lot of care to just know I'm not different. 

00:35:16 Janet: And we're all different, but I mean, you know, I'm not like, negative different. We're all just unique and we do actually all need to care for our bodies. We all have this body to steward and care for and love. And so that has been a journey. And I've seen a lot of people, it's interesting how many people resonate with that. But so for me, I feel like dedicating time to, I love going on a walk in the woods. So I, I work hard to set that time aside every day. And being present in it, like I've had the temptation to like, oh, well, I could be walking and answering calls and things and, you know. Yeah. So. And there are times where I'm like, something will come up. And I think I really want to share this with this person. So people have gotten voicemails from me. And I'm like, oh, sorry, breathing hard. I'm on a walk. And those are like gifts to me. Like I just feel like, oh, wow, this as I have this time to like, just pray and speak like I sing in the woods. I do all sorts of stuff. Anyway, the regulars all know me and seem to enjoy it. 

00:36:24 Janet: But I will sometimes, like good things will come and I want to jot it down or speak it into my phone or whatever. And that's fine. But then sometimes that'll creep into something else. And it's like, no, okay, I'm dedicating this time. So just kind of reminding myself now and again, like, okay, what am I doing in this time? And then just as I wake up and as I go to sleep, the minutes before I go to sleep and after I wake up, I just always take that time to redirect my thoughts because I do think it's important what I'm thinking about through the night and then how I start my day. So I don't feel like I, you know, my body always wants to do that. It's like, well, no, I just want to go to bed or no, I just need to get up and get going because I have X, Y, Z to do. 

00:37:07 Janet: But if I really spent, and it's not, I mean, I'm talking just minutes, but choosing to focus on, for me, it is usually like a scripture that I've been focusing on that's making me feel life and not feel, I don't know. Just be aware of truth and so I’ll just kind of bring myself back to that and redirect my thoughts to that and I actually even have things playing at night when I’m sleeping quietly. But I trained myself a long time ago to get used to that. And so, if after I have, like, decided to fall asleep my brain wants to go somewhere else,  I just tune my thoughts into what is playing in the background and that really helps me and then I just fall asleep thinking on that. So those couple of things are really big. And then I feel like the one thing, I mean, you're constantly redirecting your thoughts, like just making that choice and being in community that is still doing that is a big part of that.

00:38:06 Janet: But it's also, I'll notice when I'm really pushing my body, if I'm working really hard on my hike, or I swim in the cold water, it's like 52 right now. So, and I'm really like, okay, I'm going to push myself and get my heart rate up really high. I mean, I, I always am pushing myself on my swim, but there's some days where it's like, okay, I'm going to sprint for a little bit or something. But every once in a while, I'll notice like my body is in fight or flight, but I know, like, I feel calm. I feel capable of doing this. I have the energy to do this. Like, why am I feeling that? And I think it's just, it's that reminder of, the old way I used to do this, which was more in a shame, condemnation, you better do it, you have to work hard and fear and rush and all of that. And my body's just remembering it. And I did used to more, well, it's a little, it's a little harder swimming, but I can float on my back and literally do some light touch and things to calm my body down. And I can do that easily when hiking and I can speak more and things when hiking can't do that so much swimming. I've tried it just makes gurgling sounds, but I can redirect my thoughts.

00:39:21 Janet: And because I've spent so much time, you know, doing all of these things, even in the water, when I can't necessarily laugh super easily or make noises or anything, or even pause and touch my body in certain ways, I can just remember it. And I can just kind of tune into my body and go, you can calm down. We're fine. I actually know, and I'll check in like, oh, I actually feel just really kind of tired and worn out, and I think I shouldn't push it more right now. So sometimes it's that, but often it's like, no, I know that's not where I am, but I just kind of remember placing my hand on my heart and going, it's okay. Calm down. And I connect with my body and I find it really quick and valuable. And I'm so thankful for all the time I've spent in the past doing that, that it doesn't take much anymore.

00:40:09 Chazmith: Yeah, because you've been consistent. Consistency over time makes it easier down the road. You're like, it's like you're now teaching your nervous system like this new response, essentially.

00:40:20 Janet: Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting in classes, there's people in my classes that are trying to connect to a body part that hasn't done the function it should have done in years, right? That are really early on. And then there's people, I've noticed the other group is usually people that would consider themselves fully healed that come the most consistently. And I think, and maybe not all the time, because they're living an expansive life, they've got a lot on their schedule. But they've said it's because it kind of redirects them if they start not thinking they need to take care of themselves. And just, it's like this dedicated time, I do matter and I'm going to care for myself. And I feel like along this journey, we need that reminder, because we don't want it to be like, I need tons of special care, because I'm hurt. But I get to receive care because that's loving and kind to my body. It's so beautiful.

00:41:22 Chazmith: Like, I don't know, so many people I've talked to and myself, like, it's so normal to almost, like, you almost need to go to that other extreme again. Like, you're almost like, oh, I'm better. I'm gonna go live over here and I'm gonna start doing all the old things I used to do that got me sick and I'm not gonna take care of myself because I'm invincible. And then you get, like, you know, the universe that's like, what's going on with you, child? Get your head straight. Like, this is a lifelong journey. Like, it's not about, like, needing to do a full-time job to heal. It's about, like, caring for yourself because you're worth it. 

00:41:56 Janet: Yep. Yeah. I think I never thought that would be challenging because it was like we were doing so much care, but I think I had received kind of a, well, that's because I needed it and I no longer do. Yeah, message. And that's just not true. We may not need, like you say, all day, every day, every second of my day was dedicated to healing. Like, I don't need that. But at the same time, it actually kind of is still true. Because throughout every day, I'm choosing what I listen to and what I look at and what I focus on and who I'm around and all of that. So– 

00:42:35 Chazmith: Well, I think it's just human behavior. Even just having a coaching background and a fitness background… I mean, I always include myself. Obviously, I can't see in anyone else what I don't experience in myself. But all the time, it was like, I would notice, oh, okay, something's happening. Okay, well, I'm going to do these things. And these things make me feel better. But then it's funny because once you feel better, you think you can stop doing the things that helped you feel better. And it's like, no. These things help me feel better. I don't get to just get to some arrived place and stop the things that help me feel good. It's like, you know, it's ludicrous to think that would even be the case. If you look at it like, let's say you're… this is why diets don't work because people eat the food to lose the weight to be healthier.

00:43:22 Chazmith: Of course, if they stop eating well, they're going to gain the weight back and not feel good again. It's like, no, what is your nutritional lifestyle? You just do this for the long term. Same for those little rituals or practices, whether it's mind stuff or body stuff or soul stuff. Those are things you don't go like, I found a relationship with God, now I'm never going to talk to him again. So, I mean, he could equate that to like, oh, yeah, I created this beautiful friendship and now I'm never going to reach out to this person or communicate with them again. It's like, no, I got to keep doing, I got to keep giving and putting into this relationship with self. But we got to learn sometimes the hard way, sometimes more than once.

00:44:12 Janet: Yeah. And that's part of the community, too.

00:44:16 Chazmith: Yeah, because they help you. They help, like you said, redirect you. That's the beautiful part of making sure you keep those people close because they can be the ones that help keep you on the right track. It's good to have people like that in your life for sure. Now, this is kind of backtracking, but I just want to ask because I know that this is a really big thing for a lot of people and it might be able to provide some insights, but you had mentioned that for you personally, you didn't get a lot out of the quote-unquote rounds, which is like the retraining exercise specifically for DNRS brain retraining. However, I wonder, did you benefit from visualizations and did you utilize them throughout your journey often or were you one of those people who really just didn't care for a connect with the visualizations.

00:45:06 Janet: I really connected with the first steps of the rounds, like, which is just a redirect. I mean, we're, we're going from what we're thinking on and going to truth. And I see it as, I know they use different terminology, but I see it as lie to truth. I'm going from a lie and I'm taking myself to a truth. And I changed the wording pretty much entirely. And I changed it all the time too, because if it was really wrote for me, I would stop thinking and so I wanted to be thinking about it and so I would do that kind of regular redirects and then sometimes, like an image or really looking around me again. So I guess I didn't know this, but somatics, like looking at whatever, just connecting my body to my surroundings. Not that visualizations are real, but alive, just taking in my surroundings. 

00:46:06 Chazmith: Or orienting. 

00:46:07 Janet: Yeah, orienting. I did use visualizations and I know it was probably powerful, but I never connected any changes with it. I had a time where I had a couple friends reaching out to me. It was a ways into my journey though. I had two friends that were reaching out to me pretty much every day asking me to do buddy rounds and I loved them. So I did them and I loved the people so I could do them. And I feel like that helped me connect with them. And it wasn't bad times, it was good, but I think just letting myself, like catching my thoughts, because we are always maybe seeing things in our mind. So catching my thoughts throughout the day is probably kind of a visualization in a way, right? Like I am changing how I see myself throughout this, or I changed how I saw myself throughout the journey. So I know I was using visualizations, but actually creating a story and saying– 

00:47:02 Chazmith: Yeah, not in that way. Not in the way of like, I'm going to sit here and have this visualization and bring myself into an experience. And that's good. I wanted to acknowledge that because there's a lot of people who don't connect with them and then they become very afraid that if they don't do them, they can't heal or they judge themselves or put this pressure on themselves or create this whole story, as you would call it, a lie about what they mean and what it means about them to not be able to do them or connect with them. And I just wanted to highlight that, as it's been said a million times on this podcast, healing is so unique and so individual. And I don't want people to create yet another limiting belief or limiting story around something or themselves because one tool isn't resonant for them because you have healed and recovered from so many things and it also wasn't your primary tool. And that is just one more evidence that that's okay.

00:48:06 Janet: Yeah, I definitely had a lot of stories come up that I was one of the labels I used to put on myself was I was a DNRS fraud. I know, isn't that an awful label? Anyway, don't put that label on yourselves. I'm not telling anybody else to do it. I'm saying break it. I was so in that community and everybody was focused on that piece of it, but I was around a number of people that focused on all of it, all of our thoughts. I felt really a part of it, but I always felt , like I had this little, I'm a faker or something. I finally reached out to one friend and told her my thoughts. She laughed and was like, oh, sweetie, that's just a ridiculous story you're telling yourself. Chuck that out. I felt so much better after that. I still continue to not talk about it for a long time because I noticed there were people that it really was so valuable for. If they heard me say it wasn't, they would stop doing them. And that was not helpful for them. And so I became really careful how I worded it. If it's helpful for you, do it. There's a ton of resistance to the things that are helpful for us.

00:49:26 Chazmith: Well, ultimately, it's in that specific program. It's where we are state changing. It is how. It is the tool that we are using to state change. And there's a variety of ways we can do that. I think that's one thing I liked about the Primal Trust program, how she teaches the brain retraining part, is she teaches after you redirect or interrupt and redirect, your state change can be all these things like orienting, it can be something somatic, it can be it's whatever is going to be something that's resonant for you that you'll show up for yourself and consistently do. So I like that, you know, it doesn't have to be one thing.

00:50:04 Chazmith: But for anyone out there who's listening, who does want to do get better at visualizing or they, you know, I personally found it very challenging at first myself but then I just started, like experimenting with ways to approach it and something for me I realized was I was putting way too much pressure on myself to think I actually needed to see the experience I was having because it was a visualization. And what I started doing was just ,like acting like I was calling a friend and telling her a really juicy story. And I noticed and I could actually call a friend and just do that. So rather than act, like I was imagining, I actually would be like, I'm on the phone with a friend and I'm telling them a juicy story. And we've all done that. 

00:50:50 Chazmith: We've all, like rehashed an experience we had with, like a friend or family member that we're super excited about. And we're state changing. We're, like excited. We're happy. We're grateful. We're having that experience. And so when I reframed it to that, and started using that as a tool, it was a game changer.

00:51:09 Janet: Yeah. I love that. And actually, I did that with… I remember a friend asking me to do some rounds with her kids. And one of them was a teenager. And she wanted me to speak around on the phone with her. And then at the end, I was like, did you want to try one? She was like, oh, no, because I'm not trained. I don't know how to do one. And I said, Well, don't you have just a fun story that you'd like to share with me? I'm here and I'd love to hear it. And she shared this cool, fun story and memory. I'm like, did she do a specific technique? No, but yeah, she was smiling and laughing and she was getting to share her story. I love that because that is how we did that.

00:51:57 Janet: I also learned because everybody has a different way of learning and seeing things. I'm a kinesio learner, not a visual learner. I had this thought from how people describe things that I needed to see it really well. I needed to see the colors. And really, I could say that I could feel the cold sand under my feet. And I could feel the wind in my face. But I would judge myself and say that I was supposed to be seeing it more than feeling it.

00:52:26 Chazmith: But I don't think that's true. The whole concept of it is actually tapping into the felt sensations. And I think that's the hang-up. I think that's why people judge themselves and say they're not good at them because I think they're putting a pressure on themselves or an expectation that it's supposed to be a very specific way and visual. Yeah, I think that's the thing most of the time because we already are all visualizing in a sense. We all tell each other stories. We all have had moments where we're like, oh my gosh, I felt this and I felt that. And if we can just think of it as that way and not need to actually see it, it changes everything.

00:53:06 Janet: Exactly. I love that.

00:53:09 Chazmith: And sometimes it can be helpful to like, oh, I'm going to step outside and if I'm going to actually literally allow myself to feel the sunshine, you know, like, oh, I'm feeling the sunshiner. But then that goes into orienting, right? Like being outside noticing how the ground feels beneath your feet. So it's all the same in a sense. It's all getting us to the same end result.

00:53:27 Janet: Yeah. And I hear people saying, as you say that, well, but I can't get outside. I can't get out of bed or, you know, whatever. And that's why I stared at a leaf above my bed. And I feel like that's why I share that story. It doesn't matter. And if you don't have a leaf, you have a color, a bump on the wall, like there's something, right? There's something to look at and bring yourself into the present.

00:53:48 Chazmith: And if there's not something, you can make there be something or ask somebody else to bring something to you. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. So what are you up to these days? Because I know that you do offer a little bit of classes and there's some things that have been birthed through your own healing journey that you're now offering into the community.

00:54:06 Janet: Yeah. I offer a number of different things. I feel like it's, it seems kind of maybe broad to people, but it does kind of encompass everything that helped me, and that's kind of broad, I suppose. So I teach somatic classes like four times a week and that is, they're like 45 minutes and they are, they change. I will actually do the same class four times all week long. And then I do a different class each week because I actually find that it's helpful sometimes. I know not everybody might come four times a week, but there are memberships. So some people have unlimited access to the classes and they may come four times a week. And I find that it's actually helpful to do the same thing for a little while. 

00:54:55 Janet: And partly sometimes maybe you did it and it didn't go well and give it another chance. And maybe be calmer and don't judge yourself the next time or whatever. And yeah, I do, two of those classes a week. I do read scripture right at the beginning and end, just a short, I don't know, minute and a couple minutes. And the other two, I don't. And then I teach a self-lymph massage class, too, which I feel like kind of combines that presence and calm self-care. I keep it very… I've had people say, oh, that's medical that's out of my training zone. And really, I teach it as a self-care class. I don't talk about it. If people want to ask me questions specifically, they can outside of the class, so nobody else hears it.

00:55:43 Janet: But it's really about taking care of you and just supporting a part of your body that we can super easily support, which is really cool. It's so easy to assist that system. And so we just do that one time a week. With all of them, I record them and I have downloadable recordings that people could just purchase and have forever or memberships that they can stay and come whenever they want and have, like access to the recordings that are 24/7 streaming or just drop in. They can just try it once. And then I lead a laughter yoga classes or I call them, Laugh With Me. A couple times a week to anyone. And then a couple of times a week just to the retraining community. I'm still part of both groups and everything. And sometimes I fill in for other people. So sometimes it's more than that. 

00:56:32 Janet: I lead praise and worship sessions for anybody once a week and for retraining community. Once or sometimes many times a week, I do more pop-ups in that one. So it could be often. And then I call them praise and worship. They morphed. They started out a certain way and they became something totally different. I didn't really change their name. it's kind of a time to speak truth and redirect us to the true nature and character of us and of God. And then it's like, so I speak that and then we'll do a song together. I don't sing, they're YouTube videos. I'm not, I'm not a singer. But I love that when it often, like kind of combines whatever we're just learning and thinking about in the whole group, I often am focusing on in there, and then we focus on those same truths and words and scriptures on another day a week, once for the whole anybody and once for the retraining community, at least once a week. And we focus on praising God through that. 

00:57:42 Janet: So we actually just have time for pop-up, like, praises, whatever comes to mind through what we read. And that can be a really good time to challenge yourself to speak praises instead of maybe what your mind or body want to speak. And if people aren't up for that, they can just listen. They don't have to.

00:57:59 Chazmith: Which essentially is also just speaking gratitude, right?

00:58:02 Janet: Yes. Yeah. Gratitude. That's a great, probably makes more sense.

00:58:08 Chazmith: Because otherwise I don't want anyone who's listening to be like that. You're just like, praise Jesus or praise, you know, like you're actually like, hey, I'm really grateful for, like, I'm praising this because of this gratitude or this experience.

00:58:20 Janet: Yeah, that's exactly. And there are definitely in all of my classes, well, some everybody comes off camera, like self-lymph massage is ideally done on your skin. So people are off camera. But the other ones, people are off camera, on camera, you know, on or off mute, depending, I mean, if I'm leading something, everybody's on mute. If it's laughter, you can be, you don't have to be. I feel like it does, especially in laughter and things, it really does help when people are on camera, if it's available. Like it doesn't help if it's really not available. But I know for me, when I used to turn my camera, I can do it both ways now. But when I used to turn my camera off, I would just, like stare at the wall. Like I didn't, I didn't have the ability to stay connected. It's like I forgot I was participating in something. Yeah. But everybody's different there. So just know if you haven't tried that, try turning on your camera and see if you focus better. It can be valuable. And so there's stuff throughout the week. I think I forgot something, but that's– 

00:59:22 Chazmith: Lots of options. And they can find that all on your website, which I'm going to drop links in the show notes for them.

00:59:27 Janet: Yes. And other than the somatics and self-lymph massage class, everything else is free.

00:59:33 Chazmith: Okay. Awesome. And final question. You probably already know what it is. If you were told you could only spend your whole rest of your life sharing one message with the world, what would you spend your life sharing?

00:59:45 Janet: I would share, which I wouldn't have said this early on, but I guess that's true for everybody probably, right? I would share that Jesus is what set me free or who set me free. And I am absolutely forever grateful that I got to break down lies I had about him and that I truly am loved, and everybody is truly unconditionally loved, and I didn't know that, and I just want everybody to know that.

01:00:18 Chazmith: Thank you. Thank you so much for being here with me today. It's funny because despite having you in so many of my classes, I learned so much about you today, right? Because in class, we're not sitting there talking about each other. We're focused on movement. And so, yeah, it was good to get to learn a lot about you and your actual story because all the times that I was doing the classes, I always wondered what people's stories were, you know, but naturally we were honoring that kind of positive environment where we didn't dwell on what wasn't working. And so we didn't have the space at the time to bring, you know, bring all the other stuff up. So yeah, it was really fun to meet you better and get to know you better and hear so much of your insights that have come through your story.

01:01:04 Janet: Yeah. Thank you so much for this opportunity because, yeah, you do an awesome job with all of this and it's just a gift to get to be a part of it.

01:01:13 Chazmith: Thank you.

01:01:14  Janet: Yeah.

01:01:16 Chazmith: Thank you so much for tuning in. I hope that you did enjoy getting to learn about Janet's story. I know I did. If you find value in the content in this episode or the podcast, please consider supporting future episodes with a small donation today. There is a link in the show notes called Support This Podcast. And if you haven't done so already, don't forget to give us a follow on the Instagram. And you can join me on our weekly challenges. This week is our last week with the theme of letting go. Until next time, make this week great.