Perimenopause and Menopause symptoms might be common, but they aren’t normal with Tania Elfersy

00:00:00 Tania: The way that I like to look at the body is that the body is really intelligent in its design and in its way that it tries to compensate for things that we have perhaps innocently, you know, moved the body out of balance when we've done that. The body will do things to try and compensate for that. And so I would relax into the heat. 

00:00:29 Chazmith: Hey, hey. Welcome to Our Power is Within. I'm your host, Chazmith. And my mission for this podcast is to inspire you to take your power back and to realize that you are the healer that you have been looking for all along. I believe that we are all capable of healing in mind, in body, and in soul. 

00:00:49 Chazmith: Today's episode is sponsored by Primal Trust Academy and Community, which is created by Dr. Cathleen King, who is a dear friend of mine. Primal Trust is a membership site that helps you to find freedom from chronic illness and trauma. And it is quickly growing as one of the largest worldwide online healing communities. And it is co-led by Dr. Cathleen King herself and Primal Trust graduates. 

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00:01:48 Chazmith: Self-healing doesn't have to be alone healing. And this could be a beautiful healing container for you. If it sounds like something you're interested in, click the link in the show notes today and use the code OPIW for 5% off. 

00:02:04 Chazmith: Now our guest today is Tania Elfersy. She's here with us to talk all things, perimenopause and menopause. And while it's incredibly common for women to suffer a wide range of symptoms that we label as perimenopause and menopause, it doesn't make it normal. And it doesn't have to be this way. 

00:02:24 Chazmith: Tania shares with us how she experienced onset of perimenopause symptoms and how she was able to release these symptoms from her life for good. We talk about what she learned through her experience, what helped her, and so much more. This was such a fun and helpful chat for me, being the age I am and just some of the things that I've been noticing in my body. So I gained so much from this episode and I hope you do too. Please enjoy. Tania, thank you so much for being here with me today. 

00:03:08 Tania: It's lovely to join you on this podcast. 

00:03:10 Chazmith: Yay. Yeah, so I'm really excited. I feel like we're going to have a good conversation and it's definitely going to be the first time on the podcast. We've really done a deep dive in some specific symptoms that you will be addressing today around menopause and perimenopause. And when you first reached out to me, it was actually perfect timing because I was actually dealing with a lot of, I guess they would be perimenopause symptoms that I wasn't expecting. And so it'll be fun to kind of dive into that. I've had some relief myself through some experimentation, so it'll be good for us to have this chat and just kind of deep dive and see where it goes. 

00:03:53 Tania: Wonderful. 

00:03:54 Chazmith: Yeah. So I know that you have your own healing story. I've read a little bit about you online. I know you have a book that you've written since, you do some coaching, all kinds of things that we're going to get into. But I do want to start with your story because I think it's always usually, most often, our story that leads us into all this other stuff. It's through your journey and your healing that you kind of tapped into what's possible and some of the ways that it is possible. So could we start there? 

00:04:29 Tania: For sure. Yes. I had no idea that I would be, you know, in this space and I've been in this space for the last eight years. But perimenopause, you know, just appeared in my life. But at the beginning, I had no idea. This was about 10 years ago. I'm now in my mid fifties. And then, back then, there was much less discussion around perimenopause. And interestingly, you know, even let's say 20 years ago, the word perimenopause was just not around. And then menopause was divided up into perimenopause, leading up to menopause, menopause and post menopause. You know, when I entered my forties, you know, I had no idea. And then around, you know, 43, I started experiencing symptoms. I thought I was just falling apart. I just couldn't understand. I was sick a lot. I had migraines a lot, loads of mood swings. That was the biggest thing, which turned out to be two weeks of PMS every single month, which was a big joy. 

00:05:26 Tania: And I had, like eczema and some hair loss, all kinds of like, lovely symptoms. And I just, I was on a natural route to try and heal them. But as I went around trying to heal them with acupuncture and [Bach remedies] and, you know, all sorts of herbs and creams and potions, like I would sort of get one symptom under control and another one would pop up. And, you know, I was like, desperate. I wanted the thing that was just going to heal me, like looking outside of me. Oh, maybe it'll be this treatment. Maybe it'll be this [potion], this, you know, running all around. And then I heard a webinar by Dr Christianne Northrup. And she said, “Oh, you know, in their forties, lots of women experience what we could describe as PMS on steroids.” PMS on steroids? Wow. That sounds like my experience. What is this PMS on steroids? And it's perimenopause. 

00:06:18 Tania: And that was the first time I'd heard about perimenopause. And that gave me a framework. And I was like, oh, okay. It's not me personally going crazy. There's something going on in my body. There's a change that's happening. And I started to look into what that meant and how I could heal myself knowing now that I was in this time of change. And I was after a few years of symptoms. So I started looking around and everywhere where you read perimenopause, menopause, it's always the hormone story. And I thought, well, that's weird because why would my hormones suddenly go stupid? Why would my body not have to go through perimenopause and menopause? Like my body did some pretty brilliant things. I'm a mother of three children, three natural pregnancies, natural births, breastfeeding. Like my body was pretty brilliant. So why like hormonally, it got it right then. And no one had interfered with my body, you know, when I was in adolescence. No one needed to fix me then. So why would I need to be fixed now? 

00:07:13 Tania: And that set me off on a path of what does it really mean? What's really going on in perimenopause and menopause? And I rejected this mainstream narrative of, it's your hormones going crazy. You know, you are malfunctioning. And this whole idea of, oh, it's more because women never used to live beyond menopause. Well, women have always lived beyond menopause. You know, it was even mentioned in the Bible. So this whole idea that women have never lived beyond menopause is a misunderstanding of average life expectancy, which is, you know, through the ages, you see a graph going like that, 16th century England, something like almost half of children didn't make it beyond the age of 16. And a third or quarter didn't make it beyond their first year. So that brought down, there was, you know, lots of infant and child mortality that brought down average life expectancy. 

00:08:02 Tania: Once you survived into adulthood, you could easily live into your seventies. So women have always lived beyond menopause. So it wasn't like, built-in malfunction that we've somehow overcome in modern living. It was something that was in my life that was out of balance. And for me, I realized it was on the emotional, spiritual side of things. And at the time I was trying to juggle my little business with being an at home mom and feeling not enough. And that was the thought that kept running through my head. I'm not enough. I'm not succeeding. I used to be in the corporate world. I used to be at the top of my game, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, and every time those thoughts came in, I took them seriously. 

00:08:45 Tania: And then I came across an understanding called the three principles of innate health, which describes how we create our experience, you know, in our human lives. And I realized, oh, just because a thought comes into my head, it doesn't mean I have to take it seriously. And I realized, oh, if I don't take my thoughts seriously, I think I'm not going to have PMS. And I realized that's really a choice. Then I have a choice to take my thoughts seriously or not. And I really think life would be better if I didn't. And in that moment, something, it sounds so simple, but something very profound happened. I saw, you know, my life completely differently. I saw that I had a choice of taking thoughts seriously or not. And that released so much stress that I'd been innocently creating. 

00:09:33 Tania: And I thought, like I said, you know, I thought I wouldn't have PMS. And all my physical symptoms cleared up within days. And so not only the PMS, but, you know, everything else. And that set me off on a journey. And I was like, well, this is really interesting. And did that really happen? And, you know, what's actually just gone on? And then I sort of got to understand more about the three principles of innate health and how that did fit in so well with what I'd seen about the brilliance of women's body. 

00:10:02 Tania: And so I started sharing what I'd seen very timidly at first, because it sounds a bit crazy when everyone's talking about hormones and I'm coming with a very different approach. But since then, I have been able to help women do the same thing, basically through shifting consciousness, through understanding our human experience, through sort of embracing an emotional spiritual journey that I think this time of life is designed to take us on. Women are also able to get symptom relief gradually, sometimes instantly, and the symptoms just fall away. And we're able to have a different, sort of journey through midlife change. 

00:10:40 Chazmith: So did you tend to be more or less healthy prior to this onset of perimenopausal symptoms? 

00:10:49 Tania: Yeah, in fact, my kids were much younger then, but like ever since I become a mom, I've been incredibly healthy, I was never sick. But then it was like, all of a sudden, I was just sick with the kids all the time, and I was having all these symptoms. And I just hadn't experienced that. And I had always been in good health and optimistic and just happy in life. And it was very peculiar because I just felt like I was falling apart. And I felt like, especially on the emotional side, I felt like, this just isn't me, I just don't feel like myself. And I know lots of women feel that. They just feel like, where's my old self gone? What's happened? Why do I feel like everything is falling apart? 

00:11:32 Tania: And it's so unfortunate that in society, we have sort of like the midlife crisis that, totally made up. But people sort of think, oh, it must be my midlife crisis and boom, everything just explodes. But actually, it's the wisdom of the body coming to the surface. And if there's something in our life that's out of balance, and for some women, it can be their nutrition. For some women, they're just not moving. For some women, it's the high stress. But if something is out of balance, the body starts talking to us, just as it does in pregnancy and postpartum, for example. If something is out of balance, very quickly women get symptoms because the body is really eager to bring us back into balance. 

00:12:12 Tania: And it's the same with midlife. The body wants us to learn where our health lies. And it's a really beautifully designed transition, rite of passage that we have to go through so that we become a wiser elder. It's no good if we don't change. Where will the wiser elder be? We need to learn something. And if our health has sort of fallen off, path of nature, then the body will do what it can to bring us back to the path. And it can't send us emails, can't send us WhatsApp. How can it communicate with us? But through feelings and symptoms. And in our innocence, we misinterpret them. In our innocence, we think, ah, I'm malfunctioning. It's my hormones. As if our hormones act outside of divine intelligence. They do not. The body is wise. It doesn't stop being wise. And that allows us to go through, sort of initiation or rite of passage as we move through the menopausal years. And we transform into a wiser version of ourselves.

00:13:15 Chazmith: Why do you think that, if you don't think it was hormonal at all or any capacity of alteration in hormones, why do you think that your particular onset of symptoms just coincided at that exact time that perimenopause becomes a thing versus five years prior or five years later?

00:13:34 Tania: Right. For me, it's been 10 years, by the way. It's been just over 10 years. And I'm still not completely through. I'm menopausal, but not completely through. But the hormones go into a period of fluctuation. And that creates a sensitivity. So just like, as I said, during pregnancy and postpartum, there is that sensitivity that arises. But I see it as the brilliance of design. Because just like if a pregnant woman is working too hard, very stressed, not taking care of her nutrition, that's going to hurt her baby and her. And so that's not good for her, the baby, or the species. 

00:14:10 Tania: So there is a sensitive time created through the hormones as part of the brilliant design that allows us to wake up and get in tune if we've sort of fallen off the path of good health. And so the hormones are in flux, but that just creates a sensitivity that makes symptoms more likely to occur. So perhaps in our 20s and 30s, we could live a life of high stress. And for some of us, we could get away with it. Or we could live a life where we weren't eating very well. And again, some of us can get away with it. By our 40s, when we start moving into this period of change, the body gets a bit more insistent and says, okay, now I'm going to wake you up. And you can medicate, right? You can medicate, but it's going to come back. And it's like a lot of women, they take the HRT option, which, you know, that's their path, that's fine. 

00:15:02 Tania: But they are kind of devastated to discover that if they have to come off HRT, as many do after seven years, because long term use increases all kinds of risks, the symptoms can all just come back because their body's like, okay, now you desensitize the body, but now we're going to learn something that you didn't want to learn, you know, seven years ago, and we're going to learn now. So that's what, you know.  

00:15:25 Chazmith: Yeah. Right. Because you're just kind of masking the symptoms as opposed to healing the true essence of what's there to be healed. Yeah.

00:15:33 Tania: Right. Right. And so for some women, you know, if that's their journey, I often say, you know, look at HRT, like a sort of first aid. For some women, it's so unbearable. They're so, you know, drowning in the symptoms. And I understand that because I was there just wanting the thing, you know, that would make me feel better. But if you don't look and learn what the body wants you to, you know, the discomfort that we feel at midlife can develop into something else. So it's really this time of awakening, looking within and finding, you know, who we really are and that we are innately healthy, even if we've innocently, you know, forgotten. 

00:16:11 Chazmith: Right. Yeah. No, this is cool. I love how you explain this, like, this heightened, there's some changes that are happening, it creates a heightened sensitivity. So things that we may have gotten away within the past, we're not getting away with now. And so it can create this onset of sensations that are the body's way of communicating with us that something's off balance, it needs to shift. And we get to deep dive into what the body's asking of us at a deeper level. 

00:16:38 Tania: Yeah, absolutely. 

00:16:40 Chazmith: Now, what's interesting is because the power of belief is so strong, just like when you challenged your thoughts and decided to believe different thoughts. So what happens, I think I'm just going to try to recap this is we start having this sensitivity, we start having these symptoms that we may or may not understand at first, eventually through conversation or research. We realize, oh, I might be actually having, “perimenopause.” And therein becomes my belief, because now I've justified why I'm feeling what I'm feeling, I have an excuse or reason to interpret or understand what's happening in me. And that creates an even stronger belief around it, because now I've said, oh, well, oh, it's perimenopause. So I must believe I'm going through this, and it just is what it is. And I'm going to have these symptoms unless I go find some magic cure outside of myself to mask them. 

00:17:33 Tania: Yeah, well summed up. And, you know, it's so easy to fall into that trap, because on the one hand, it is a relief for women to realize, oh, you know, it's not my personal crazy, you know, lots of women are going through this, you know, that offers some relief. And it's good to know. But what happens is that everything gets thrown on perimenopause, everything gets thrown on menopause. And in the UK, for example, over the past few years, lots of women have now just, like there's been this huge campaign to really change women's behavior around perimenopause and menopause. And there's this new awareness around midlife change. But what's happened with this awareness, because it's medically driven, is that women are just chucking every symptom onto it. 

00:18:19 Tania: Oh, I'm feeling depressed. Oh, it's my hormones. I have anxiety. It's my hormones. I have, you know, everything. Well, no one's talking about stress. No one's talking about how we misunderstand, you know, where our innate health lies. No one's talking about hardly, you know, diet. Everyone's just like, oh, it's just your hormones. So fix those. Well, why would they be broken? Why would they be broken? Like, you know, almost nobody's asking the question. So, you know, in America now, it's just started again. And, you know, some very big celebs are now pushing menopause awareness again. But it's an awareness of malfunction and why you should just blame everything on your hormones. And it's a complete misunderstanding.

00:19:01 Chazmith: Yeah. And isn't it interesting how, and this happens time and time again, the more we bring awareness to it, suddenly, the more people are all experiencing these symptoms, right? Because it becomes this, like cultural belief. So then we're strengthening this belief even more. So it's like the more widespread that it's like created, then the more widespread the belief, then the stronger the belief, then the more people dealing with all these random symptoms and then just writing it off as X, Y, and Z.

00:19:30 Tania: Yeah, and you know, I was listening to a doctor who's been helping women for about 30 years in menopause. And she was like, "It's so interesting because when I started off, no one was talking about brain fog." Like, no one seemed to be suffering from brain fog. And now it's like so, like headline news, brain fog, women get brain fog and they can't manage at work, et cetera, et cetera. And so what's happened is there's been this, you know, increase in awareness and now everyone's like, "Oh, that's brain fog. Oh, that's my menopause. Oh, yeah, that's my hormones." Et cetera, et cetera. No one's like looking at, well, what are we putting into our brain these days? Like, we walk around with this mental load that's unprecedented in history. But no one thinks, well, could it be our very peculiar modern society that is constantly overloaded, that's creating brain fog? Or do we just think it's our hormones?

00:20:17 Tania: So there is something that a change in the brain that happens, but there's a purpose for that. And actually, so many women experience at this time, a real drive to slow down. And it's part of the design. And the brain fog is part of it too, right? If you experience brain fog, don't just blame your hormones. Think, how could I perhaps lessen my mental load? Like, how could I perhaps slow down? What could I do to make even a minor shift in my life that can have a really big impact on my health? But no, you know, the dominant narrative is, "Oh, no, it's just your hormones and so you need to take, you know, HRT and that will fix you." Because, you know. 

00:20:55 Tania: And then the media is full of stories of, you know, I couldn't work and I couldn't, and it was brain fog and it was my hormones and I needed HRT. Well, no one's looking at, you know, what does, for example, corporate life, you know, offer women when they're going through this sensitive time? How can we possibly support women better and lessen the brain load, the mental load, and other things that would make our journey easier?

00:21:22 Chazmith: Yeah, it's interesting. I'd be curious just to get your kind of insight. And I kind of have an idea just through the conversation already, but I'd still like to hear your thoughts because I noticed a massive shift after experiencing the coronavirus, COVID last year. So I had that and it hit me pretty hard and I was down and out for quite a while. And afterwards, I just noticed that I started having this uptick in an extreme sensitivity to heat. But at first I thought it was just the sensitivity to heat. And then over time, I started realizing that I was actually having, like what people called hot flashes, which I have so much compassion for people who go through this now, regardless of why, you know, and if it's just this sensitivity in the body asking for change, it's not fun.

00:22:10 Chazmith: And I used to always think women that were much older than me that talked about it were just, you know, I thought, I used to be like, "Oh, whatever, you're not really like having this thing. It's no big deal." And then I became that woman and I was like, "Oh, my God, I get it now." But I did notice this uptick and I started also, kind of just writing it off as perimenopause. And I am also in that age that people say it can start. It doesn't, for everyone. But do you have any insights as to why I might have kind of had that become an onset after going through a sickness? Do you think that just heightened my sensitivity maybe?

00:22:51 Tania: By the way, night sweats was one of the symptoms that I also had and I forgot to mention. And so I know what that feels like. And certainly today I feel, you know, there's a different amount of heat in my body. I don't have night sweats anymore, but there's a difference in the heat. And the way that I see it is during times of change, when the body needs to adjust to something, I think the body uses heat. With teenagers, there comes a time when they say, "I'm not wearing my coat." And for example, I'd be, like, but it's cold outside. They're like, "I'm not wearing my coat. I'm hot." No one says, "Oh, those teenagers, it's going, their heat." They're just like, "Oh, they're teenagers." Right? And pregnant women, women who are postpartum, I mean, I certainly remember when I was breastfeeding, oh my goodness, you know, the sweat, the heat that used to come out of me. And no one pays attention to that or says, "Oh, sorry, the hormones are malfunctioning." Like how can you breastfeeding and sweating so much, you know, whatever it is.

00:23:51 Tania: But the body seems to use heat at these sensitive times to overcome something, I think. And the way that I look at it as, you know, the way that I like to look at the body is that the body is really intelligent in its design and in its way that it tries to compensate for things that we have perhaps innocently moved the body out of balance when we've done that. The body will do things to try and compensate for that. And so I would relax into the heat rather than try and think, "Oh my goodness, what does this mean? Is this a malfunction? Is this..." You know, at times of stress and COVID was a very sensitive time for people and there was a lot of stress going on and I would sort of trust the body in its response rather than trying to fight it.

00:24:44 Tania: And that's the same with women who have hot flashes or night sweats. You know, we can have a completely different experience of those things if we relax into them and really trust the body. So for example, although I had my spontaneous healing, there have been times since that was in 2015 where I've got really, you know, in my head about something and things have gone on. And then I could find myself, you know, in bed at night having a night sweat. For example, a particular time where there was, like online bullying, whatever was going on with my work and stuff like that. And I had three nights of night sweats. 

00:25:24 Tania: But by that time, I didn't have to feel stressed about them because I knew that that meant that, "Oh, I'm just a little bit off balance." So I'd wake up at 3 AM. I wouldn't go into a panic. I know a lot of women do that innocently. They don't mean to, but they just like, "Oh, my God, am I going to work tomorrow? I need to get up in, you know, four hours or whenever." And I know it's not the most pleasant thing to wake up, you know, for the sweat and you need to go up and change your night clothes and, you know, sheets and stuff like that.

00:25:52 Tania: But we can have a different experience of it. And so for example, at that time for me, all I needed to do was just sit with that and say, "Okay, I'm like, something in me that's off balance." And I trust the body to bring it back into balance. And in the meantime, I know I'm a little bit stressed about that online bullying stuff. And I'll think of what needs to be done. And I did. And it took me a few days and I worked out and then the night sweats went away. So it doesn't matter what the symptom is. We can always have a different experience of it. We can always be stressed by it and be running around trying to fix it. 

00:26:32 Tania: Or we can really trust in the brilliance of the body and understand that the body just doesn't send the symptoms for no reason. It's compensating for something. It's overcoming something. And/or it's trying to wake us up, you know, trying to say, "Oh, hello, you're a little bit off balance. You want to do something about it." And once we can really trust in the body in all its brilliance, everything that we're facing just becomes easier. And surprise, surprise, you know, symptoms just begin to fall away.

00:27:06 Chazmith: Yeah, all of that is very resonant and it's coming down to two things that I can think of to sum it up. Trust and once again, back to the belief, right? Trusting the body and also what the belief is that you're holding. So if I have, like a hot flash or any symptom and I have a belief that is, like fear-driven or a resistance or a belief that this is bad, what does it mean? I'm going to have a completely different experience of it than if I just go, okay. And it's funny that we're talking about this because that's, recently, I've actually had a lot of relief in my symptoms from doing a few things and like just a few, just lifestyle changes. However, I do still sometimes have the little hot flashes, particularly around my cycle. And when I'm at work, I noticed one day how I would almost like, yeah, have a resistance to it or a fear around it or as if it had to mean something.

00:28:08 Chazmith: And when I stopped fearing it and just started being like, well, what if it's just okay that I'm sweating a little bit under my work clothes? Like what is the big deal? Like, "I'm hot, okay. So I'm a little sweaty. What is going to happen?" You know, if I stopped being afraid, oh, because I think, before I used to be afraid, "Oh, my gosh, I feel like I'm going to pass out." But then I reminded myself. But I've had this happen for many months now and I've not passed out yet. So I'm actually okay. So what if I just trust my body and I just have a little extra sweat and it's okay. And then it's funny how it just passes and then you're actually okay. You know, so just not resisting it and accepting it. And then also that belief of being okay and not having to make a story around it.

00:28:55 Tania: Yeah. You know, I like to look at it as, because it is a sensitive time. It does seem that the sensitive times of change, adolescent, pregnancy, postpartum, perimenopause, menopause, the body just uses the heat to perhaps, you know, if we look at sort of to boost immunity in some way, you know, I'm not really sure. And doctors don't know. They'll just say, "Oh, it's because, the estrogen and the progesterone or whatever." You know, they come up with these reasons, but it just seems because it happens at every time of hormonal flux, then there's some reason behind it and we don't have to fight it. And at the same time, we can feel reassured that, you know, it's not a malfunction and there is a way to reduce the intensity, and to reduce the frequency of flashes or night sweats. 

00:29:47 Tania: When we bring our body back into balance and we all know what that looks like, but the symptoms do lessen. And, you know, that's really hopeful because it's not about, in my experience and from the experience of women I've worked with, it's not about, you know, finding the exact cocktail of hormones that you need to bring yourself back into balance. You're not out of balance. You're going through a sensitive time. It's very different when you approach it that way. And so, like I said, trust the body. It knows what it's doing. And sometimes it might need the heat to go a bit up and we'll be okay.

00:30:27 Chazmith: Yeah. In the world of German New Medicine, I'm not sure if you're familiar with that at all, they believe that the heat is a normal part of a healing phase. Like in conflict activities is where you have, like cold hands and cold feet, but that it's generally where we feel more heat and healing. So if you go back to trusting the body and just knowing that, "Oh, there's actually, my body's just working for me right now, perhaps it is doing a little rebalancing for me."

00:30:55 Tania: Yeah, exactly.

00:30:57 Chazmith: And that's softer. 

00:30:58 Tania: It's so much softer and it's such a relief because, especially these days, our very modern idea of what it means to be a woman, we think we need to get everything under control and we need to fix everything, et cetera. And there's a divine intelligence that's got us, it's supporting us. Relaxing to that. It makes it so much easier. We don't have to fix the body. Just like we don't have to make the heart, you know, pump, or the lungs work, or the food to digest, or our eyes to blink. We don't get involved in that level. So why would we think that we need to get into the endocrine system and fix it? That's a ridiculous concept. The body knows what to do. It's fine. It's got us. We're supported. Let's relax into that.

00:31:46 Chazmith: Yeah, we just got to get out of its way sometimes. Yeah.

00:31:48 Tania: Yeah. It's innocent, though. You know, I've been there. It's innocent. We don't realize, you know, that sometimes if you just take your hands off the wheel, as it were, you know, it's autopilot. The body knows what to do and you can just relax. 

00:32:03 Chazmith: So you talked about very, very briefly that what really was a catalyst for you to have your spontaneous healing was a shift in your belief system, which came about from the three principles. Now, I've had some guests on here in the past discuss the three principles, but it's been a really long time and I'm likely having new listeners tune in that might not be familiar with that concept. So could you briefly explain what the three principles are for maybe perhaps new people who aren't familiar with that term?

00:32:38 Tania: Yeah. So the three principles in there, you know, one, two, three are the principle of mind, which is universal intelligence, which exists in all living things. The principle of thought and the principle of consciousness, which is awareness. So the three principles explains how our human experience is created through the interplay of mind, thought and consciousness. And when we can understand what's going on behind the scenes, it makes everything that goes on in our life, that there's an ability to see everything lighter. 

00:33:17 Tania: Because if I have a thought and I see that I have a choice to take it seriously or not, let's go back to my big thought of, I'm not enough, lots of women experience, right? What was happening before I had this understanding was that thought came into my head. I thought that thought defined me in some way. I took it very seriously. And then I thought, "Oh, I need to change that thought." You know, I need to work on, no, surely I'm enough. So let me, you know, try and find some practices that will make me believe that I'm enough.

00:33:52 Tania: But in fact, when we do that, which is, creating a thought storm around the very issue that we don't want, right? So like, if I think I'm not enough, and then I think I need to change it, then I'm thinking a lot about I'm not enough. And then I have a bad feeling about it. And then I think it's on me to think my way out of this bad feeling, which is an impossible thing to do. So when I have this understanding that that is just a thought coming through my head, I can't control the thoughts that come into my head. That's a lot of work. What I can do is be an observer of them. And what I can do is realize that through shifts in consciousness, I can have a different experience of any thought that comes through my head. So I wouldn't say that today, I never have that thought, I'm not enough come through my head. I just know that when it comes through my head, I have an option not to take it seriously.

00:34:42 Tania: And I know that if I start feeling bad, then there's something going on that I'm taking seriously. And I don't have to create the other experience that I want to have. I just have to let go, relax, remember, "Oh, I'm experiencing my thinking in this moment." And I could not experience that kind of thinking, I could just let it go. I can just lighten up about my thinking, and new thought will come in, I don't have to go and find it and implant it. It's just the way nature works. Thoughts come, thoughts go. Most of the thoughts we have in the day, we're not even aware of them. People say they have like 50,000 thoughts in the day. There are some that obviously resonate with a story, a belief that we've got going on at the moment. And then we feel bad, or we feel good, right? But it doesn't matter, actually, what thought comes into your head. Just remember, it's a thought, it doesn't define you. It's like a blip of energy, and it will pass.

00:35:39 Tania: And so looking at the principle of mind, of the intelligence behind, you know, the intelligence behind all things, when we come to understand that also from the perspective of what's going on in a woman's life cycle, we can rely on that. We say, oh, you know, there's an intelligence behind everything. There's actually intelligence behind thought, behind feeling, and I can relax into that and feel supported. And I can also be aware that I am tapped into a source of wisdom much bigger than the little thoughts that run through my head. 

00:36:18 Tania: And through sort of a discernment of feeling, then I can say, "Well, you know, where is the feeling taking me? Am I going on this [train to fear]? And do I want to go there? I mean, I can, I can hang out there. But do I want to go there?" I can just get off by releasing, you know, the belief, the thought that I'm holding onto very tightly, have a different experience of whatever's going on, and relax into sort of a different level of consciousness that will allow a different thought to come along. And maybe then if that thought comes with a different feeling, maybe I'll just look there, right?

00:36:57 Tania: So no matter what circumstance we're going through, I'll take an example of, you know, someone loses their job. They can have a lot of thinking around losing their job. I mean, the circumstances, they lost their job, but they can make the story of, you know, I'm never going to get a good enough job. I'm going to be, you know, claiming benefits. Like, what am I going to do? Am I going to make my mortgage? Or it could be like, I've lost my job. This is an incredible experience because maybe now I can go and do what I actually wanted to do. Right? 

00:37:26 Tania: So it's the same circumstance, but we can just have a very different experience of it. And it's about understanding how that experience is created. It's created through the thoughts that come through our head and how seriously we take them and where we want to put our attention on thoughts that we take seriously, and then we have the feeling that responds to that, or on something that's much lighter. Like, "oh, I think I'm going to make a great opportunity of this moment of losing the job."

00:37:52 Tania: And no matter what the circumstances, there's always a different experience that we had. And we often see that in retrospect, like, okay, someone lost their job five years ago. Five years ago, they may have thought it's a disaster. Five years later, they're like, oh my God, that was the best thing that ever happened to me. Well, how, you know, what happened? They still lost the job at the same time, but thoughts, you know, go through our head. We have a different experience. We come to a different level of consciousness around the circumstance. And just as we become to get a sense of how that works, that makes life lighter. 

00:38:27 Tania: And then we just have a nicer time of life more of the time. That doesn't mean that we then sit on a cushion of enlightenment for the rest of our life. But it, you know, it just means that no matter what happens, I'm always, you know, it's never too far in my head that I can always have a different experience of it. So it can be, you know, something related to work, something with the kids, something, you know, with the weather, something, you know, whatever it is, I know, oh, I can get caught up in my thinking about it. Or I can remember I'm experiencing my thinking in the moment; I can just wait for another thought to come. And I'm always just a thought away from sort of complete peace of mind.

00:39:03 Chazmith: Yeah, I like this. It's one of, and like you said at the very beginning, it sounds so simple, but it is not always easy. Especially if you spend a lifetime of being caught up in your thinking. But then again, as I say that, that's also just a thought, right? Like the thought, it's just a thought to say it's not easy, like, or it could be easy. What thought do I want to be aware of or focus on or believe or hold true?

00:39:32 Tania: Yeah, yeah. 

00:39:33 Chazmith: About it.

00:39:34 Tania: And again, it's not even like I need to go and do the work to find the thought, right? I just need to remember that thoughts come, thoughts go, just like the clouds, right? It would be like me trying to fix my thoughts is like me trying to fix the weather. It's a cloudy day. Is there anything I need to do? Can I have a different experience of a cloudy day? Of course, I can. So, I can have a like, you know, stormy thinking in my head. And I can have a different experience even in that moment. By just relaxing into the intelligence, just remembering, "Oh yeah, that's just my thinking." I can have a different experience. I'll just wait and one will arise. I don't have to do the other experience. I just wait. 

00:40:17 Tania: And because our default, mine, yours, everybody's, is peace of mind. And also, we have peace of mind and the incredible ability to misuse thought innocently, to convince ourselves that we don't have peace of mind, right? That's the nature of thought and the way that we use it. But our default is the way that we were born. We were all born with peace of mind. We were all born with [innate health]. And, you know, returning to that is only ever a thought away. 

00:40:46 Chazmith: Okay. So, you know, in the healing community, in general, we learn a lot about emotion and making sure that we allow the emotion that we feel to move through us, to have an expression so that it can be released and not repressed. And a lot of people learn that they might've spent the majority of their life repressing emotion and not actually being in tune with their emotion, right? And so, they might be on this healing journey and then they start learning tools and techniques to actually release the emotion. So, I want to give a concrete example. So, I want to use your example with the person who lost the job. And you gave two very different scenarios. But say that one person loses their job and they're in a really tough financial position over it and they're in a lot of fear. And I get what you're saying. It's, thought, right? And we can entertain a different thought. 

00:41:40 Chazmith: How do we find that balance of settling into this idea of entertaining a different thought and not getting caught up in this story while also accepting that we are very human, having this human experience, and that while we do have some of this heavy thought and story, we are also feeling an emotion with it. And how do we create that balance of allowing the emotion to honor the emotion that we're feeling and allow it to express itself and be released rather than repressed? And also changing what thought we give our awareness to. 

00:42:15 Chazmith: Because what I don't want to see happen is people do what is called "toxic positivity." I could see how somebody listening might interpret it as toxic positivity where they're not honoring what the actual emotion is because they just want to be like, no, I'm going to believe the thought. Everything is just okay. Everything's okay. Everything's okay. But from an expression of what's happening actually in the body, you don't feel like everything's okay. Does that make sense what I'm asking?

00:42:43 Tania: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, some people call it, like, spiritual bypass. 

00:42:48 Chazmith: Yes, that's the term. 

00:42:50 Tania: Right. So, what I'm sharing, and the three principles of innate health is an understanding. We're understanding the way the system works. And once you understand it, you don't need to go in and fix it because you just understand that that's the way it works. Even before I came across the three principles, those principles were playing out in my life. There was divine intelligence running through me. There was thought running through me. And there was my level of consciousness that allowed me to take things seriously or not take things seriously and have a lighter time of life or not. And so, I have this understanding that means it doesn't matter if I fall into insecure thinking. If I spend days in, like these days, it would be unlikely that I would spend days there, but it doesn't matter that I would spend, you know, if I did spend days in insecure thinking, thinking, oh no, this is, that this, this situation. 

00:43:48 Tania: Now this is really different. This is a real disaster. Like there is no other experience that we had of this situation because I can see that, you know, this and this and this has happened. You know, I now have an understanding that I know that that's not true. I know that when I get caught up in fear, it's an illusion. All that's happening is me taking my thinking seriously. And I know that I can have a different experience of every situation, like even, you know, more serious than losing a job, you know, anything. I can have a different experience of it. 

00:44:20 Tania: So, it doesn't matter that, if I hang out in fear, if I have the understanding, because soon I'll sort of just, I'll just bounce back. And what happens when we, you know, get caught up in insecure thinking, fear, et cetera, and the beliefs that, you know, this is really, you know, this is the disaster. What happens is it's like we're pushing a beach ball underwater and we're, you know, we're working really hard to keep it there. And then we can just realize, "Oh, wait a minute, what if I just return to a loving feeling?" Like, and that's it. "What if I just become aware that a different experience can be had?" And that's all that's required. It's an awareness. And it goes from like low level of consciousness. It's like going up in a lift, right? And suddenly I'm seeing something else. I go up another floor. Oh, wait a minute. I'm seeing something else. It's literally the shift in consciousness. Down here, everything looks terrible. And, you know, I'm really holding that beach ball underwater because I really believe this is the disaster. 

00:45:29 Tania: And then I start letting go and I don't have to do anything. The beach ball comes up to the surface. And because peace of mind is our default setting, then, you know, we just bounce back. There'll come a time and we'll just bounce back. And knowing that is, it's so kind to ourselves, you know, that when we really appreciate that, there's such a kindness in it because it's not up to me to fix myself. If I'm in the insecure thinking, that's okay. I can hang out there. My body's designed to take it, you know, until a point and then I'll start getting symptoms, right? Because my body doesn't want me to hang out there. My body knows that, you know, health problems can arise. If you're constantly living in fight and flight or, you know, constant stress, et cetera, then health problems will arise. So, the body's always talking to us, "Hey, maybe you want to lighten up?" It's all it ever wants. Lighten up. Have a different experience and just let it go. 

00:46:23 Tania: And when we've seen that enough times, you know, it doesn't matter. No one should believe me, right? What I'm saying. Everyone should play with it. That's what you can do. And maybe, you know, I often say, [to kind], you know, don't take the most serious thing that you think, oh, this, like, this is never going to change. This is, you know, the, you know, the family problem, whatever it is, right? Don't play with it there. That will take a long time. Take something else. Like, can you have a different experience of washing the dishes? Can you have a different experience of driving home from work? And we know that we can because we know that if we've just had an argument with our boss or our colleague, we get in the car, drive home from work. And, you know, and what's going on? The drive is the same every day, right? It's not about the drive. It's about where we are in our level of consciousness. So play with that. 

00:47:12 Tania: Like, if you just had an argument with someone at work, for example, and you get in your car, can you then have a different experience of the drive home? Like, what are you inspired to be in that moment? Can you catch a different feeling? Like, now I have to work at it. Just like, wonder about it. Oh, I wonder if I can have a different experience of my drive home and see what happens. And we'll see that, you know, there's nothing to do. It's just like the beach ball coming to the surface or the clouds, you know, moving in the sky. I don't have to shift them for the weather to change. 

00:47:42 Tania: Like, just let it happen and the weather will change in our head. We can move from stormy thinking to clear thinking. And we just let things go and we'll see, oh, yeah, I can have a different experience of driving home. I can have a different experience of washing the dishes. There's nothing actually to do except to be open to a different experience arising. And so, when we play with it, in the little things in life, we'll start seeing something new about that big heavy problem that we think is, you know, going to last forever. No, even there, there's a different experience that we had. We just need to be open to that arising.

00:48:18 Chazmith: Yeah. And so, what I hear you saying is it's not, once again, we go back into this idea of, like non-resistance. So maybe there's a thing that happens in my life, you know, by the standard you're talking about, it's a neutral event. But as a human, we make up a ton of stories around it. And the stories we create are usually based on our past experiences and our perception. And so, we make this big giant story and now we have these really big heavy emotions. 

00:48:42 Chazmith: And what you're saying is it's not about resisting those emotions or once again saying, I'm broken, I need fixed, something's wrong with me. Oh, I'm having all these emotions. Like, let me stuff them down and pretend it's okay. It's about just being more aware of the fact that you're stuck in this story and you're having these emotions and they're okay. They're there. You're aware of it, but you can start to be curious if there is another option.

00:49:04 Tania: Yeah. And like, here's a story I share in my book that when I started off in this work, I really had sort of imposter syndrome. I was like, well, something, you know, happened to me and I want to share it, but I'm not a doctor. I'm not a psychologist. Who's going to listen to me? Yeah. Go and listen to a doctor. I don't know. And so, because my message can be seen as controversial, I would show up online or in real talks and give a talk. And for example, I remember one particular talk when there was a woman who was a psychologist and she kept shouting at me and she kept interfering and saying, "You all say that and blah, blah." And then after the talk, another woman came out and said, "How dare you say those things?" You're not a doctor. And at the time, I still held onto that belief that maybe I shouldn't be sharing this because I'm not a doctor. 

00:49:50 Tania: And so, I felt really bad at the time. You know, I was like, oh God, this talk has been awful. And what have I said? And, you know, oh, you know, it's terrible. I had a really bad feeling. But by the next day, I settled down and I realized, oh, you know, and there'd been women who'd been, who actually came up to me at the talk and said, that was really nice. And I had a really good time, and it was really good. And I've learned so much. And the next day more women messaged me, and I began to see, wait a minute, maybe it wasn't so bad. And, you know, I put all my attention on these, you know, very critical women, you know, women who are being very critical of me. And maybe I don't have to. And then I let it go. And then I realized, oh, yeah, maybe it was good. You know, it seems like, you know, women enjoyed it. 

00:50:34 Tania: Now today, if someone says to me, you can't say that, you're not a doctor. I really laugh because I don't hold that belief anymore. You know, it doesn't resonate with me, whatsoever, because I've realized. I say things about menopause because I'm not a doctor. I'm not trained in this sort of, like, brainwash of your hormones malfunctioning. And so, for me, I don't have to break free from any system. I don't have to break any rules by saying, you know, maybe trust your hormones. Maybe your hormones aren't getting it wrong. You know, I'm not in any system putting pressure on me so I can show up anywhere I want to. And it's pretty cool that I don't have to be part of the medical system. I don't have to worry about my license being taken away. You know, whatever it is, you know, that I can say these things. 

00:51:16 Tania: But a few years ago, you know, when I was just starting out, then I would have a very different experience of someone saying to me, you can't say that because you're not a doctor, because it resonated with something in me. There was a belief that I was holding onto. Now, as I said, "I don't hold that belief. You can tell me whatever you think of my work, and it's just going to bounce off because, you know, I've heard it all before." I don't have those beliefs, you know, that's that, and I understand that's that person having their experience of my work. And there are other women that have different experiences of my work. So, it's actually not my work. It's them, [who] they are and their experience of my work.

00:51:53 Chazmith: Yes, I do. 100%. 

00:51:56 Tania: Okay. 

00:51:56 Chazmith: Thank you for giving that example. I love giving people concrete examples. You mentioned how you shared that story in your book. So, I'd love for you to just take a moment and let people who are tuned in, yeah, just kind of know what you're up to and what you're offering and how they can connect with you.

00:52:11 Tania: Yeah. Well, first of all, my site is thewiserwoman.com. And there, there's tons of free stuff, you know, lots of stuff on my blog that will really give women a taste of, you know, more about what we've been talking about. And my book is available, where all good books are sold, called The Wiser Woman's Guide to Perimenopause and Menopause. And it's a short read, hopefully an inspiring read, because no matter what the dominant narrative says, this doesn't have to be complicated. You know, there is a simple way to get symptom relief. Simple and natural way. And so I'm happy to share that through my book. And then I do, coach women one on one and I have an online course, which runs over three weeks. So there are lots of options and lots of free stuff on my website. So yeah, thank you for that. And yeah, I'm always happy, by the way, to answer questions. Women can email me and yeah, I'm always happy to help. 

00:53:08 Chazmith: Sure. Are you on any social media where they can follow along or like direct message you or private message you? 

00:53:13 Tania: Yeah, I'm on Twitter and Facebook and LinkedIn, but I'm not very active there, but I'm there. And so, you can find me there too. And like I said, always happy to answer questions. I know that when you're sort of bombarded by the “It's your hormones” message, some of the stuff I say, people are like, really? Is that possible? So reach out and yeah, always happy to hear from them.

00:53:36 Chazmith:  Fantastic. Thank you so much. I'm going to ask you one final question I ask everybody at the end of my show. And that question is that if you were told that you could only share one message with the world for the rest of your life, what would you spend the rest of your life sharing? 

00:53:50 Tania: Your body is brilliant. You can trust it. That's enough. Yeah. 

00:53:56 Chazmith: I love it. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here with me and sharing the wisdom that you've gained through your own experiences and doing the work that you're doing, because we always need more people who are advocating for this body wisdom, this body intelligence and this capacity to heal. So, thank you. 

00:54:17 Chazmith: Friends, once again, that is all for today. And as always, I hope that in some way you are inspired, or you receive some insights to support you on this journey. I was wondering if there's anybody out there who's been an avid long-time listener, who may have had a specific episode or a specific guest who's been on the podcast, has a major impact on your healing journey. If so, I really want to hear all about it. So, drop me a DM on Instagram, @ourpoweriswithin or shoot me a voice memo on my website by clicking the blue microphone, email me, any other way you know how to connect with me. 

00:54:58 Chazmith: I would love to hear from you and hear your story and just hear where you're at and how something, some element or some guest from this podcast has supported you. Oh, and in case you didn't realize that weekly challenges are back, I'm just sharing them on Instagram. So, if you don't give @ourpoweriswithin 'gram a follow already, do that so that you can participate and join me on the weekly fun challenges to upgrade our lives together. And until next time, as always, make this week great.