How Utilizing Green Space Has Helped me Navigate Lupas with Verla Fortier, 150

00:00:10 Chazmith: Welcome to our Power Is Within, a weekly podcast to inspire you to take your power back and realize that you are the healer that you have been looking for all along. We are all capable of healing in mind, in body, and in soul.

00:00:27 Chazmith: I'm your host, Chazmith, and today's episode is brought to you by Primal Trust Academy and Community, created by Dr. Kathleen King, who is a dear friend of mine and has been featured on this podcast four times now. Primal Trust is not just a do it yourself program. It's an online community and your one stop shop for all things related to brain retraining, nervous system regulation, and somatic practices for those with trauma and chronic illness conditions. It is quickly growing as one of the largest worldwide online healing communities, and it is co-led by Dr. Kathleen King and Primal Trust graduates. In addition to the main programs level One Regulate and Level Two Primal Trust Mentorship, you have daily forum support, peer led study and support groups, and a variety of daily live classes to help support your healing. Some of the class options are somatic movement classes or functional neurology classes, but there's so much more. In addition to all of the support provided in the membership, you are also now able to join the brand new journey groups led by some of the Primal Trust mentors. These journey groups will be small cohorts where you will go through the Level One and or Level Two programs together. It will be a place to practice, to learn, to share, and to be guided for a much lower cost than private one-on-one mentoring. To learn more, check out the links in the show notes and use the code ‘OPIW’ to save 5% on your first month and sign up today.

00:02:06 Chazmith: Speaking of Primal Trust, our guest today is someone who has recently gone through the Level One Regulate program and has made a ton of progress in her healing journey. Her name is Ren. She joins us today to share her personal healing journey with us. Some of her wins and what she has learned along the way, and so much more. Her story is so inspiring and enlightening.. I learned a few new tips and tricks myself, so I hope you do as well. So let's welcome her to the show and please enjoy. 

00:02:35 Chazmith: All right, Verla, thank you so much for being here with me today. I'm really excited to meet you and get to have this chat with you. 

00:02:44 Verla: Oh, I'm just so pleased to be here, Chaz.

00:02:46 Chazmith: Yeah. I've been looking forward to this since you connected with me, because for anyone who's listening not to give it away, but I know there's going to be a lot of talk today about plants and nature. And everyone who's been an avid listener knows that that's right up my alley and that I'm really in love with plants in nature. And I've had one other guest come on here and actually talk about how he uses horticulture as a form of therapy. And that was really awesome. And so, yeah, I'm just really excited to hear your story finally and see where it goes. So for those who are listening, I want to just preface that what you've been diagnosed with and what you are primarily working towards healing. And your healing journey is really about lupus, right? And so from what I understand, you retired from your career and then it was a short time after that you were actually diagnosed with lupus. And it's interesting because this is really common, right?

00:03:46 Chazmith: Like, people spend their whole life working really hard and they get really excited about when they finally get to retire, so they can do all the things they've dreamt about doing. And so many people end up with chronic or acute illness when within a reasonable time after retirement. I mean, even heart attacks or strokes or other various diseases or various pains. I think that it's going to be really interesting to see how this unfolds and what you've discovered through the work and the journey that you're on and the timing of this and how it all correlates. 

00:04:22 Verla: Yes, that's exactly what happened with me. I was living in this city in Canada where I am in Ontario, and I was teaching as a professor at a nursing professor at Hamilton Health Sciences. And I was just excited to go back to my hometown, which is where I am now, Manitoba, and it's on the edge of the boreal forest and there's beautiful sand, white, sandy beaches and I love the outdoors. And I was just picturing myself with my friends and my family. So I was so excited at 63 to be heading home and it was a routine doctor's appointment, I thought. I was so busy, I was selling my home. My kids were now in university and I thought, I have this rash on my face. I just got to get the right cream. And because I'm a nurse, I had the cream in mind that I wanted. So it was just going to be quick in and out. 

00:05:20 Verla: And previous to that, I'd had this rash that was they called it a sun rash and they burnt it off and I got scars and I saw my GP a lot, but I was just referred to this dermatologist for this rash and I was getting a bald spot on the top of my head, but I was just trying to smile more and ignore it all. Anyway, I got in there and she was really seasoned, I could tell right away. And she said, I can tell by the way you look. I'm going to take a biopsy. You've got lupus. And I had 15 minutes like everybody does. You have lupus, avoid the sun, here's the recommended plaquenil or medication and that's it. And I knew that I was lucky to get diagnosed and I was lucky she took a biopsy, and I was lucky she knew the blood work. And then when the blood work came back, it was antinuclear antibodies, and they were on the really high end of lupus, and that's where they've stayed throughout my journey. 

00:06:20 Chazmith: Did you develop it while you were still teaching or after you retired as you were starting to plan your trip home?

00:06:27 Verla: I think I had it, but just I don't know for how long or I just know that I was a single mom. I had two huge jobs, and like all of us, I was worried about selling my home, getting to my new place. I just started to smile more to cover up all my rashes. I changed the part in my hair. I mean, I was just a survivor, and I just getting through it. But then what happened was, once I got that diagnosis, because when I was a nurse, people with lupus died. I mean, that wasn't very long ago. And as soon as they came in, we go like, okay, they've got lupus. They've got this body wide infection where the body's attacking itself. We can just do prednisone, but that's it. And then they'll weaken and they'll probably die. I thought, okay, I'm a nurse. I know how to be the perfect patient. I'll do what they say. I'll take my medication, I'll stay inside. And that's what I did. But I still moved home.

00:07:38 Chazmith: Did you feel that the diagnosis, in a sense, was also like a trauma? Because there's a lot of people who in this community, we really think we want a diagnosis because we have these unexplainable symptoms and we don't understand it. And our body, to us, at the time, doesn't make sense. So we go out and we do all these tests, and we want these diagnoses. But there's also, like, a huge school of thought in this community that often what we think we want can be actually rather traumatic, because then we get this diagnosis, and it can feel really traumatic because we get told, oh, you have this, and there's no cure. And that in itself can really impact our psyche, and it can create fear and sadness and grief, and there's so many things that can come up through a diagnosis. So do you feel like in one regard, it did impact you in a way like that? 

00:08:29 Verla: Yes. Thanks for articulating it so well. I mean, I think all of a sudden I went from an easy going, happy person. I was scared. I isolated. I just tried to just by myself, trying to figure out how to get better and not talking to anybody because I didn't know anybody else that had lupus. And you go into that negative rumination where then you've got your stories going, and that's what happened to me. I mean, why me? It was just like, how come I didn't see this coming at me? I'm a nurse. All this just really scary, scary stuff. And by myself and inside in a new place. I can see now that how depressed I was. I kept thinking, well, it would be okay, would be okay if I died. I don't want to take my life, but this is no fun. I don't know what to look forward to.

00:09:27 Chazmith: So through the diagnosis and all this rumination and fear and negative thinking that came up, the sadness, do you feel that your symptoms got worse in that period of time? 

00:09:39 Verla: They definitely got worse. Definitely got worse. All of a sudden now I was in the renal clinic, I had protein in my urine. They were talking about kidney biopsies. They were looking at my heart function and there was questions there. I was just going to more and more specialists all the time and I was really, really sick. And I had a hard time even walking. And the fatigue was incredible. It was like I got really, really sick.

00:10:09 Chazmith: Yeah, I mean, well, you went from a rash that you thought was just going to be a rash with some cream you needed to getting this diagnosis that terrified you. And then all of a sudden you have a downward spiral of more symptoms kicking in and more things happening, which I mean, in my experience of being in this community so long and having my own health challenges, it's so very normal, common. And then in the brain retraining world, that's when they say that we start to develop that impaired limbic system because once we're not feeling good, that's where all of a sudden the rumination and the hyper vigilance and the fears and all this extra stuff comes in that gets your mind spinning. That then creates almost this downward trajectory of almost more issues that the brain then starts producing in a sense.

00:10:53 Verla: Yeah. 

00:10:55 Chazmith:  Let's talk about what happened and what shifted because we're obviously here, not because that's the end of the story, right? Something obviously happened and you discovered something big in your life that really was a catalyst to help you to begin your healing journey. And so what was that? 

00:11:12 Verla: Well, it was one comment. I wasn't getting any support from the traditional healthcare community. I knew how limited that was and I just knew what I could get. So I joined every lupus support group online I could. And then there was one person that looked pretty healthy in all of them. And she said she went outside and I thought, oh my gosh, she went outside. The rest of us are talking about being vampires, how we have to avoid the sun and why bother. And as soon as I saw her comment, she said, I wear sunscreen, a hat, so far so good. 

00:11:49 Verla: And that was after a year of me just hiding inside, scrolling, lying in bed. I didn't contribute to any of these support groups that I would normally lead. So that was that one comment. And I thought, oh my gosh, I'm going to try what she did. And I went outside and started walking in a trail in the woods. And I just kept walking. The longer I walked, the better I felt. And all of a sudden, my mind began to feel free. Like it was like this big black dog wandered off. And my mind was just like, "Ohh," and I saw those thoughts that I was going to die and that there was no hope. I saw all those things, but they just didn't seem to matter. And the more I walked, the more free my mind became more at ease and things just felt more friendly. That's what happened initially.

00:12:52 Verla: And I went back because I'm a nursing professor and I did lots of research, I had never heard about walk in the woods. I was 63 then. I'm 70 now. So this was five years ago. The research was not really there or pulled together very much. I started to research and I found all this amazing stuff, amazing. Green space was not only used for that, it was actually used not just to prevent disease, but to treat disease, to treat mental illness, to treat heart, diabetes. And I just couldn't believe it. And I couldn't believe that it wasn't in the healthcare space.

00:13:32 Chazmith: And for everyone who's listening, can you tell us what green space is? 

00:13:36 Verla: Yeah, green space is defined in the literature as anything that is like it could be a park, a tree, it can be plants in your home, anything that is alive that you look at, whether it's inside or outside. And it doesn't have to be in the woods or in the forest, even the sky that's blue or the water. But they put it all together as green space in the research. 

00:14:04 Chazmith: Okay. I do wonder sometimes if there's a varying impact depending on how much access you have. Being in a forest, to me, feels really different than just sitting in my chair in my yard, looking at one tree across the street. There is a difference, a different feeling when you're surrounded by trees in nature and big tall trees that are like a canopy or something. There's definitely a different elemental feeling for me when I think of the differences. 

00:14:31 Verla: But as I've done more research, I found that it really depends on the person. Some people are almost relearning a relationship with nature. So if they're just going to go and sit with one tree, then that's going to do it for them. And so it's more about what that individual feels good with. 

00:14:54 Chazmith: Yeah. And that makes sense, right? Because some people are so drawn to hills and valleys, and some people really love being in forests. And other people, the beach is their sanctuary. So I can see how it's really about tapping into what part or element of nature really resonates with your body. 

00:15:14 Verla: Yeah. And what works for you at the time. Like some days when you're under a lot of stress going out into your garden or just finding one tree is, know, taking a breath. And what I found was that once I was able to get that space, then I was able to look at bring in other things, like the research that Ellen Langer did on meditation. Her idea of meditation is easy and it's fun. So it's just like, notice one new thing. So when you go outside, notice one new thing, something that you thought you knew already, but maybe you don't know one aspect of it, and that fires your neurons and everything, like, and gets you perked up.

00:15:58 Verla: So it's more about the noticing than it is about the environment. So if you're stuck in the city and there's not a green thing around, then go outside and look at the sky. You might see a bird and the clouds. There's fractal patterns in there which we can talk about. So it's really about shifting your environment and noticing.

00:16:25 Chazmith: Yeah. And then if you're in the city, you can bring plants and green space into your home. 

00:16:30 Verla: Exactly. And there's very strong research on plants inside just looking at plants or pictures, like on your screen saver or just pictures of nature. Now, when I go into the doctor eye doctor for my lupus eye tests, they've got nature, nature, nature spinning around there on their screens and there's a reason for that. And in surgery, because it lessens pain. And pain is like, in our world, in our chronic illness world, pain is emotional. It's our thoughts and it's physical. 

00:17:04 Chazmith: It's all of it.

00:17:05 Verla: Yeah..

00:17:06 Chazmith: But you came to discover that over the past few years, I am assuming. 

00:17:11 Verla: Yes. I mean, this green space has given me head space to be able to write two books, start a podcast, and really look at the simple, easy stuff that I could add into my toolbox when I go outside. 

00:17:26 Chazmith: Yeah. And so it sounds like also as you were walking, you said it started to clear your head. So it almost seems like, in a sense, that kind of became your meditation in a therapy. In a sense, like for you, you found this ability to find this ease or peace and stillness in your mind while you were out in the forest taking your walks. 

00:17:47 Verla: Yes. Thanks for that. That's right. And it was more that I felt safe. 

00:17:53 Chazmith: It's kind of interesting we're talking about this. I have a friend who sent me a meme the other day, and it was about the science of how regulating plants can be for our nervous system. And she has ton of plants in her house, and she loves taking walks out in nature, and she's been suffering from a lot of various health conditions herself. And she sent me this meme, and she goes, if this is true, I should be the most regulated person in the world. What's going wrong? And do you have any insights if there's somebody who's like, oh, I don't understand. I do spend time in nature. I do have plants in my house. Why do I still feel dysregulated or what am I missing or what's not happening that I need still or something like that?

00:18:37 Verla: I think that there's so much in that answer, and it's partly it's education. Like your brain has to know, when I was out there, not only did I feel peace and safe and everything like that, but then I was able to go to the literature, and that's why I started writing this book, is I wrote down for myself. Okay, the research clearly shows from Stanford University that when you go outside this part of your brain, the subgenual prefrontal cortex, there's less rumination waves in there. Okay, I get that. That's MRI that's in my brain. And the other research shows that when you're outside, when you come back in, you have an ability to pay attention, better, learn new things, problem solve. 

00:19:24 Verla: It pays to kind of read the research and be familiar with the research so your brain knows that this is what could happen to you. So one thing is education, and the other thing is, I guess, trusting what I call my outside mindset. So when you get out there, it's a really good idea to just stop, breathe, notice, and even put your hand on your heart and thank yourself for getting out there or taking those two minutes. That's it. That's all you have to do. But you have to give yourself the time and the space to let it happen and be familiar with the research to believe it. Because I didn't believe it. I thought, all right, come on. And that's why I compiled it, because I just thought, these top universities at Harvard, Stanford, they're all peer reviewed research, and it's not being funded by money. It's all independent. So you're not going to hear about it unless you go to this research and who's promoting it? There's very little reason for anybody to promote it because you don't make any money. And even the free people that are promoting free stuff on podcast, there's always an angle, but there's no angle. You can't get an angle on this except for I write books, but that's not a big money maker. It's really helpful to get all this stuff together and be familiar with that. For sure. 

00:20:58 Chazmith: Yeah, definitely. I mean, they even say the educational piece and like brain retraining, it's so important because as you're learning these new belief systems, there's parts of you that are going to resist this new information and say, no, that can't be true. No, that can't be true.  And then you have to go back and find the research and learn and do the educational piece so that you can reinforce these beliefs and say, no, I got the information right here. You almost just keep getting to prove it to yourself. When you have doubts, self doubt comes in. No, I'm going to prove it to you. It's right here.

00:21:25 Verla: That's exactly it. And our brains are overprotective, right? Any fear or any problems, and they'll protect us. And it's just knowing that our brains are overprotective and that get through it.

00:21:37 Chazmith: Yeah. And it also sounds like, too, like in nature, it's about, like you said, stopping, pausing, hand on heart noticing. I think there's this element of slowing down. And I wonder how many people have been in the experience that I've been in, which is, I know I used to be here and I'm grateful I'm not here anymore. But I do know so many people who are where they go out to nature to go on a hike, say on a trail, or they go on a beach walk, and it becomes about the destination. Like it's almost about just getting through it. It's like there's this intuition within us that knows that actually taking ourselves out into nature has value and benefit. But then we get out there, and that type A, I just have this end goal. I just want to get it done because I'm like going really fast, and it's about the exercise and getting my heart rate up. And we make it like that.

00:22:29 Chazmith: Or we're looking at our clock wondering, okay, I got to get to a specific time, rather than letting it just be about that journey, the beingness of being in it, being okay with not trying to just get to the end, but to notice all the things along the way. If there's a creek, notice the sounds. If it's a season where leaves are turning yellow, notice those yellow leaves on the ground. Noticing if there's a squirrel running across a branch on the tree. All those little things that I think sometimes we can so easily forget to tune into because we get so wrapped up in the end result of it.

00:23:08 Verla: Exactly. And I think that's why it's fun to go with friends, but it's also nice to go by yourself and treat it as a meditation or your own treatment and then maybe get that attitude, which I call my outside mindset and just, okay, I'm here now. I'm going to love and trust life again. And here I am. And I don't have to do anything out here. Nothing. All I have to do is be here. I could sit on the bench and get the very same effects that I can with just strolling or walking. So you don't even have to do anything when you go outside to get the well being effects. And they're massive.

00:23:53 Chazmith: Yeah. Nature, in my opinion, is such a wonderful teacher. And she reminds me of the perfection that is within all of us all the time. I feel like yesterday it's kind of corny, but I'm not even kidding. I was on my little evening stroll at the beach, and I feel like I was just, oh, gosh, it was like this stormy day. So there are these big giant clouds that look like smoke plumes. And as the sun was setting, there was like, pinks, and then off to the other side, it was literally almost black and gray clouds. And then the water was just so beautiful. There's this reflection of the sun on the sand where the water is that it's iridescent looking, and I'm just walking and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I look at the ocean," I'm like, "You're just so perfect, you're so beautiful." And I literally felt and this doesn't happen, this has not actually happened until yesterday, but I felt like she was like, "So are you. I'm just your reflection." Like, I just felt that for the first time, and it was so powerful because it just made me kind of chuckle and think oh, my gosh, that's why she's here, to remind me these things. 

00:24:58 Verla: That is so beautiful. And the science is fractals are naturally occurring patterns in nature. In Richard Taylor, University of Oregon, he's the head of the physics department, and he's the world fractal guy. And he says the fractals is just a simple name for these patterns that are at different dimensions all the time. So that's one thing you could notice. Like you could notice a cloud. But what you did, what you just described, there are all different fractal patterns based on what it is you're looking at. So they're all different dimensions of the very same thing. And he's worked with psychologists and just looking at fractal patterns decreases stress up to 60% immediately. 

00:25:49 Verla: So if you've got two minutes and you see a goat and look at the fractal patterns in a cloud, you're doing something faster to your heart rate, your respiration, your HRV than anything that you can do in a pill or any medication. I think this is going to be so big in terms of treatment for chronic illness. It's going to be the treatment. The next 10,000 steps is going to be that you need these 21 minutes a day in green space, and if you get them, you're going to live longer, think better, be healthier, get through any of these chronic illnesses.

00:26:28 Chazmith: It's interesting, though, because in a sense, it's really not new information, right. Because years and years and years and years ago, they actually used to understand the power, the healing potential at a beach between the grounding and the sounds of the ocean and the negative ions in the air from the moving water. And they used to wheelchair people who were really chronically ill out into the sand to spend time out there breathing that air in and being in that space. 

00:26:59 Verla: Yeah, it's just that we need to just go back and pay attention to what has been done in the past. It's something that we forgot. We spend more time inside than a maximum security prisoner. 

00:27:13 Chazmith: So crazy. 

00:27:15 Verla: Yeah. And we don't give ourselves a break. If we think of a break, it's just smokers that go outside and have a smoke break. But why don't we think about having a green space break? 

00:27:17 Chazmith: That's so funny. I used to always joke because I've worked on and off in the food service industry for so long, and the smokers always got to sneak outside and take their smoke breaks. And I'd be like, but why don't I get smoke breaks? I don't smoke. But you don't smoke. I'm like, yeah, but I still deserve to have like five and ten minute breaks throughout the night and go outside and breathe fresh air. Maybe that's part of the appeal for them. But I wanted to ask you, I wonder what your thoughts are regarding say there's somebody who's listening right now and I can feel or hear it, the rebuttals, like, oh, but what about when I live somewhere and it's really cold or it's too hot or I have sun sensitivities? There's all these reasons that people want to hide indoors. I wonder how we can begin to create solutions to help people in those situations still immerse themselves in the natural elements. 

00:28:26 Verla: Yeah, once you get into it and you make it a priority and you realize the value of getting out there, then you start looking at ways to adjust your clothing. In the summer now, the sun is so strong. Strong. So I wear this hat that the fishermen wear that covers. It's got a mask that comes up here and the whole thing. And I have a full body suit. And underneath that I wear zinc to cover up. So I wear heavy duty sunscreen underneath this SPF 50. I mean, you need to make those kinds of investments. But as soon as you get out there and then you need to use your judgment. Like I sometimes do stupid things. I stay out too long on my stand up paddleboard and an inflatable kayak and all this stuff. So then now I'm on the water and that's worse, right? So I really got to use my judgment about when I go out. 

00:29:27 Chazmith: But the nice thing about timing and getting outside is that if you go out in the direct sunlight, if you're strategic about it, if you go in the morning, then you're setting your sleep clock. So this is helping your sleep. And if you go in the afternoon, it adjusts your mood up. So at different times of the day and then in the evening, it's mood and well being. So you're getting the effects of being outside just in terms of sunlight alone, right. At the good times for people with lupus and sun sensitivity. And actually, all of us, because none of us need to be in the sun in the middle of the day when it's the worst. 

00:30:11 Verla: And then when it's cold. I mean, I live where it's freezing. I'm in northern Manitoba, so I have all the stuff to heat, and I have Raynauds and I had breast cancer before. After this, so I mean, we all have so many different things. When we have a chronic illness, it's never just one thing. It's always a family of conditions, Sjogren's  I have. So it's just going like, okay, I have this not being scared, being okay with uncertainty. And that's what I learned when I could get the presence of mind, where you can just go like, okay, is this inconvenience that I have to do all this, or is it a catastrophe? It's simply an inconvenience. I have to put on more stuff, I have to pay a bit more money, get the coverage so I can get all the benefits. 

00:31:03 Verla: And do I know what's going to happen if I go out? No. 

Actually, I do know I'm going to get better. And what if I get worse? Well, let's see. So it's just like being brave enough and courageous enough to get out there and believe it, and then I don't know what's going to happen. You don't know what's going to happen. So we'll just help each other and away we go. So it does take courage when you're feeling sick to go out. And my lupus is still active, and I went on another journey, which is very closely aligned with yours, with the autonomic nervous system. So then I was able to, as a result of that, decrease my plaquenil with my physician's approval.

00:31:49 Chazmith: Nice. Okay. So kind of immersing yourself in green space, clearing your mind, beginning to expand your horizons. Do alternative research, look beyond just the physical elements. You start, do things like meditation, address nervous system regulation, all this other stuff, to then support you on this healing journey. Now, you can take less medicine, and you said you still have active lupus technically, but you have experienced a lot of improvement in the symptoms and the quality of your life, right?

00:32:19 Verla:  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you look at me and the doctors just they think, oh, you're just fine. Then they do the tests, and nothing on paper has changed. But my thinking is loosened up. My whole attitude to everything is transformed. In fact, I almost feel like the lupus diagnosis has been a blessing for me. 

00:32:41 Chazmith: And you don't look to have a rash on your face?

00:32:43 Verla: Right now. No, I don't. But if I go out in the sun, I get the mask thing if I overdo it, and if I overdo it, I'll get the rash. And I know I don't expect my lupus to go away. I'm just going to live with it happily and make it my friend. And it is teaching me an awful lot. It's teaching me so much, and I'm developing a really friendly relationship with it. 

00:3:09 Chazmith: And you're not living in fear of dying in the same way when you first got the diagnosis. 

00:33:14 Verla: When we have chronic illness, you do get scared whenever something happens, you think, oh, no, okay, here we go. Okay. Here I am. This is going to be the end now. And I always have to catch myself. I'm kind of an anxious person anyway, so I'm always employing green space. I'm noticing, I'm doing the whole gratitude thing. I'm putting my hand on my heart a lot. I go by myself and I have these little things that I acronyms, that I remember, that I use as my tools that I can tell you about in some of my books and just run through it. In the first book I had this thing called Control. So I go like C is for count the number of minutes I've been out in the day. So I usually do that. And then O is for outside can be any space, any kind of space. And so I keep track of all the different little spaces that I do. And then N is for notice new things. And then T is for trees and fractal patterns. Notice those fractal patterns. And then R is for respiration. So when you breathe, trees give off these protective health giving aerosols to protect themselves. So if you're near them or any plants, you're breathing in that scent and that's going straight into your nose and that's going straight into your brain. So it's like taking a nasal medication. So you're really getting treatment there. And that's one of the things. And then O is for outstanding, I got here. And L is for love myself, love life.

00:34:59 Chazmith: Love it. That's awesome. And so you use that as a little tool for you throughout the day? 

00:35:04 Verla: I do, yeah. And then I have another one that I do with my heart and my autonomic nervous system.

00:35:10 Chazmith: What's that one? 

00:35:11 Verla: That one spells space. So I'm looking at S is for getting out into space and then P is for pollution. So I'm aware of air noise and light pollution and planning my day around that. So if I have to go somewhere, I will take a longer route, a greener route. There's even research that says that along the highways, if there's 1 km depth of green space along the highway, there's less chance of sudden cardiac arrest. 

00:35:52 Chazmith: Interesting. 

00:35:53 Verla: That's been done in North Carolina, that one study. 

00:35:57 Chazmith: Wow. 

00:35:58 Verla: So if you're looking for the scenic route, you're avoiding as much pollution as you can. And then A is for awareness. So you're just aware of how you're feeling. Notice how you're feeling before you go out and when you're out. And then when you come back in and you really will, you'll find that when you get outside you smile more and the research is there to show that you're more cheerful. Your thinking loosens up and then when you're back in, you can pay attention, you can get down to your work, you feel good, you're nicer to yourself and others. And then C is for compass. And I use heart rate for everything because I'm a nurse and that's what we did with patients. So if their heart rate was good when they're resting, we knew we could relax. We knew that they're going to be okay. 

00:36:54 Verla: And the first thing that got me clued into how important green space was is that it showed that within three minutes, when you're outside, your resting heart rate goes into balance. It hits you in the heart right away. And same with your HRV, they're showing now. So that's your heart rate variability, and that's your autonomic nervous system. So I know you're very familiar with the autonomic nervous system, and this is what I'm crazy about now. I know my resting heart rate. I recommend everybody else should, and they also should know their heart rate variability. I could talk about that. And so that's my compass. And then E is for your environment and your body shifts with your environment. At first I thought, oh, I'm too emotional. I'm too this, I'm too that. But then I realized it's not me, it's my nervous system. I don't have to take this so personally. If I can get out and into some green space or look at a plant or look at some nature and slow down, my nervous system slows down, I feel better. 

00:38:04 Chazmith: Absolutely. That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Also, so you mentioned that you had tips that you could share regarding early warning signs of chronic health or illness that we all have access to. Could you share some of those? 

00:38:22  Verla: Yeah. So that's resting heart rate, and there's really good research that's just coming out now, and that's resting heart rate and heart rate variability. 

00:38:31 Chazmith: Oh, okay. So what we've kind of just been talking about.

00:38:04  Verla: Yeah. But it's so interesting so that they've got the numbers. So if your resting heart rate is, like, 73, and resting heart rate is when you're doing nothing, like when you're just relaxed. And I think a lot of us, as you say, Chaz, like we're going for a walk. We're always thinking about getting our heart rate up, but we don't maybe aren't aware of the value of knowing what our resting heart rate is. So in my last book, my best friend died of a sudden cardiac arrest, and she was healthy on a road trip. And this was I used resting heart rate and heart rate variability to figure out what could have happened to her. And that's when on the road, you look at pollution and that affects your heart rate. So if you look at all those different pollution things which are affecting your heart rate and heart rate variability, if you're in green space, that's not happening. So if you're going on a road trip and you get into green space, that's a real antidote. That's a really good thing to do. 

00:39:43 Chazmith: You were sharing just like how you were using these two tools as an early warning sign. 

00:39:49 Verla: If they know their resting heart rate, which is a pulse. And that's what nurses take when you're in the hospital. You can just get that off your watch or taking it the old fashioned way or whatever. But your resting heart rate, you should know and check it every day. And if it's high at rest, that is your early warning system. And everybody is different, so you can't really give a number. But some of the research shows that if it's over 73 or 74 for a long period of time at rest, when you first wake up, then you have an increased risk of sudden cardiac arrest or heart attack. And like lupus, people die 50% more than the normal people of heart attacks. So this is the killer for lupus is heart. And it is the killer in most diseases, chronic diseases. 

00:40:41 Verla: The autonomic nervous system for people who don't know is that just happens automatically. And one side is the speedy sympathetic, and the other side is the parasympathetic, which is often called the rest and digest. So those two sides of our nervous system go up and down, up and down all day. It's normal. That's what we want. But with certain conditions, like lupus, it gets stuck on one side or the other. It can be either side. And so this is something that I've been really aware of and I use as a tool with my lupus. So I measure my heart rate variability every day for two minutes with this free app and a chest strap, which I paid like $100 for off Amazon. And it's research based. This app elite HRV is called, but I don't have any connections with them.

00:41:37 Verla: But anyway, it tells me if I'm stuck on the sympathetic or if I'm stuck on the parasympathetic side, and then it'll tell me you might be actively needing to recover so I don't have to guess how I'm doing. It's just like, okay, I feel terrible. And I take my HRV, and I'm a ten out of ten, which means great top. So I think, well, maybe I don't feel that terrible. Maybe I just give myself another coffee and I'll be okay. And then other days, it'll be really low, like two on the parasympathetic. And I think, yes, I am bad. But then it only lasts for a day. And then if I do everything right, then my autonomic nervous system will go back into balance. But I know it's really valuable because last summer I took it and for three days in a row, it was really bad. 

00:42:31 Verla: And I thought, this is not normal. I took those numbers to my GP. She did a Holter monitor for 48 hours, and she took it very seriously because doctors know what heart rate variability is and means. And so now I have a baseline. The holster monitor didn't show anything, and I was fine. But what we did do is decrease my plaquenil as a result, because plaquenil can affect the heart and heart rate variability. This autonomic nervous system is a real thing, which I know you know, Chaz, in chronic illness and whatever tools you can throw at it, the better and take it so seriously. 

00:43:13 Chazmith: Definitely. Thank you for sharing that. Before we get into how people can connect with you and all that good stuff, I want to ask you my final question that I ask everybody. If you were only allowed to share one message with the whole world for the rest of your life, what message would you spend your life sharing? 

00:43:28 Verla: I would say get out into green space. It could save your life. Your life depends on it. 

00:43:35 Chazmith: And how can people connect with you or learn more about you and what you're doing in the world?

00:43:39 Verla: I have a podcast called Your Outside Mindset, and I've written two books. One's "Take Back Your Outside Mindset." And the subtitle is "Live Longer, Stress Less, and Control Your Chronic Illness." And the second book is "Optimize Your Heart Rate." And the subtitle is "Balance Your Mind and Body with Green Space." And those are on Amazon. 

00:44:03 Chazmith: And are you on the social media world anywhere for people to connect? 

00:44:06 Verla: Yes, I've got a website at [theresemendez.com,] and on there is all my links to I'm on everything Instagram, Facebook, a private Facebook group, which anybody's welcome to join, where we support each other to get outside Twitter, everything LinkedIn. 

00:44:26 Chazmith: Stay busy with that. Okay. All right, Verla, thank you so much for being here today and sharing your story and just what you've learned along the way and being here to inspire people to develop that relationship with nature and getting outside more. Appreciate you and was really great to get to chat with you. 

00:44:44 Oh, thank you so much, Chaz. And I love your podcast and I'm going to keep listening to every episode.

00:44:49 Verla: Yay. Thank you.

00:44:52 Chazmith: Friends, that's it for today. As always, I hope you found this episode insightful or inspiring in some way to support you along your journey. If you find value in this podcast, please remember to subscribe like and share it to help me spread the message that healing is indeed possible. You can also follow along on my Instagram channel, Our Power Is Within, where I will be posting small weekly challenges every Sunday for you to join in on with me. And remember, if you have a guest request or a topic you would like me to dive more deeply into, please let me know. Otherwise, until next time, make this week great.